For reference:
“No wonder then that Heber C. Kimball, recalling his courtship with a woman he married in 1822, claimed that she had been "taught ... in our young days, when she got into the family way, to send for a doctor and get rid of the child"; a course that she followed. (Footnote 9).
Primary Source Citation: Heber C. Kimball in the Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. (Liverpool, 1857), V:91-92.
But MG claims that A.I. told him there was no source for this. I don't know whether to believe MG or the Primary Source Citation: Heber C. Kimball in the Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. (Liverpool, 1857), V:91-92.
It's a real dilemma.
As you can see from the plethora of material I've provided for you Heber C. Kimball taught that abortion was sinful. A complete reading of the limited 'cut and paste' material you provided paints a different picture than the one you were trying to hawk.
Unfortunately, this is not a 'one off' among some critics. Hit and run sourcing without complete context.
Apologists can be guilty of the same thing. That's why I recommend going to original sources when possible...like I did for you...to get a larger perspective on whatever truth there is to be found.
Joseph Smith Papers would be a great example of original source material, for example. The two pages you provided a photocopy of earlier in the thread, not so much.
Its not even about him so he’s outed himself as an avid reader.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Its not even about him so he’s outed himself as an avid reader.
Daniel, MG, and KIsh do have a point. Kimball was apparently very much against abortion. He seemed to believe, however, that every man should have his own harem, and that all of that man's wives should submit and toe the line.
Its not even about him so he’s outed himself as an avid reader.
Daniel, MG, and KIsh do have a point. Kimball was apparently very much against abortion. He seemed to believe, however, that every man should have his own harem, and all the wives should toe the line.
My concern is that humans have a tendency towards 'siloing' information and either being unaware or unwilling to look at alternative viewpoints even when the evidence is right in front of their face.
We are all susceptible to that phenomenon.
Wang's inability to 'see' in this particular discussion represents this concern which ultimately ends up distorting the truth.
Daniel, MG, and KIsh do have a point. Kimball was apparently very much against abortion. He seemed to believe, however, that every man should have his own harem, and all the wives should toe the line.
My concern is that humans have a tendency towards 'siloing' information and either being unaware or unwilling to look at alternative viewpoints even when the evidence is right in front of their face.
We are all susceptible to that phenomenon.
Wang's inability to 'see' in this particular discussion represents this concern which ultimately ends up distorting the truth.
You probably should acknowledge the beam that's in your own eye, MG, before you consider the mote in someone else's. You're pretty slow to own up to your own siloing and disingenuousness.
My concern is that humans have a tendency towards 'siloing' information and either being unaware or unwilling to look at alternative viewpoints even when the evidence is right in front of their face.
We are all susceptible to that phenomenon.
Wang's inability to 'see' in this particular discussion represents this concern which ultimately ends up distorting the truth.
You probably should acknowledge the beam that's in your own eye, MG, before you consider the mote in someone else's. You're pretty slow to own up to your own siloing and disingenuousness.
Thank you for bringing that to my attention...as if I didn't already know that this phenomenon is something we ALL deal with.
Including, of course, yourself.
Would you agree?
We should recognize this in ourselves along with others.
I'm simply pointing out that in this instance Wang fell prey to 'siloing'.
You probably should acknowledge the beam that's in your own eye, MG, before you consider the mote in someone else's. You're pretty slow to own up to your own siloing and disingenuousness.
Thank you for bringing that to my attention...as if I didn't already know that this phenomenon is something we ALL deal with.
Including, of course, yourself.
Would you agree?
We should recognize this in ourselves along with others.
I'm simply pointing out that in this instance Wang fell prey to 'siloing'.
Sure. What I'm saying is that you'd have more credibility if you specifically acknowledged your own disingenuousness when you're called out on it. "We all do it" is not an argument.
A recent example that you ignored when it was pointed out.
The big story here is not the false claim about Kimball, which is silly in the extreme, but the idea that one polygamist man could be an effective father for the children of all his many wives (Kimball had 43). The neglect that follows the demographic imbalance of polygamy leads to a lot of evils. Failures in the home, and dangerous repercussions for the community. One man creates many sons, many of whom will receive little attention and even scanter opportunity for a marriage of their own, and then trouble ensues. The great riches of one man, as is so often the case, lead to the poverty of many men and disorder in the community.
The account of one of Brigham Young's non favorite wives and their children having to schedule meetings in order to beg for money while living in near destitution, while Young and his favorite wives and their children lived in luxury is both heart-wrenching and sickening.
The account of one of Brigham Young's non favorite wives and their children having to schedule meetings in order to beg for money while living in near destitution, while Young and his favorite wives and their children lived in luxury is both heart-wrenching and sickening.
Indeed. One ought not to trust a system that facilitates such grotesque unfairness.
"I have learned with what evils tyranny infects a state. For it frustrates all the virtues, robs freedom of its lofty mood, and opens a school of fawning and terror, inasmuch as it leaves matters not to the wisdom of the laws, but to the angry whim of those who are in authority.”
so he’s outed himself as an avid reader.
