Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?

[I Have Questions]

Whose version of Jesus?

If we go with yours, where will that get us?

Preach it, brother!

Regards,
MG

What did the Lehites use to trade with? That’s right, they had nothing because they took nothing. After 8 years in the wilderness avoiding all others, they would have been dressed in rags or animal skins. On what basis would a powerful ship-building community have traded with them to the extent that they would have provided this group of destitute vagabonds with a significant power symbol, like a ship? Did they simply ask nicely?

[ceeboo]

IHAQ, I can't do all the work for you. If you are interested in truth (some people are not) - You will have to look into the Mormon Jesus claim - The Islam Jesus claim - The JW Jesus claim - And any other place that borrows/claims the name of Jesus and draw your own conclusions.

You’ve misunderstood. I’m trying to ascertain what you think and believe. Where your belief has its lines. So, is it your belief that the Mormon version of Jesus is an acceptable path? Do you think Jewish people are on the right path? What about Scientologists?

I believe the Bible. I think Jesus rose from the dead and is alive on His throne.

There are no Ceeboo paths - The path back to our Creator has been provided (available for all) by the only one who could have provided it (Jesus/God)

There are no true/valid Ceeboo lines - No true/valid Joseph Smith lines - No true/valid Muhammed lines - No true/valid Watch Tower lines - No true/valid Talmudic Judaism lines - No true/valid Ron Hubbard lines. There are no true/valid lines that are drawn by any created being

The path is paved by Jesus/God - The lines are drawn by Jesus/God.

What does IHAQ believe? Where do you derive your beliefs? Do you have lines? Do you have a path?

[I Have Questions]

You’ve misunderstood. I’m trying to ascertain what you think and believe. Where your belief has its lines. So, is it your belief that the Mormon version of Jesus is an acceptable path? Do you think Jewish people are on the right path? What about Scientologists?

I believe the Bible.

Why? The Bible is a man made construct of Iron Age blogs written by people with an agenda and which aren’t primarily first hand accounts. Why accept their take on things when you don’t even know who “they” were, nor do you know the agenda of the people who pulled those things together into a collection called ‘The Bible’. The Bible states that women should be silent in Church, you believe that?

What does IHAQ believe?

I’d love to believe in an afterlife, but I see no reason to suggest there is one.

Where do you derive your beliefs?

From research and examination of observable things.

Do you have lines?

Yep, I don’t take anyone’s word for anything.

Do you have a path?

To what?

[ceeboo]

I believe the Bible.

Why? The Bible is a man made construct of Iron Age blogs written by people with an agenda and which aren’t primarily first hand accounts.

That is not the conclusion I have come to.

If you have looked at the mountain of available evidence/arguments for and against (manuscripts, variants within the manuscripts, archeology finds, resurrection discussions, dating of the gospels, Old Testament prophecy claims, etc, etc) and you have concluded what you have written above, then, you have made your conclusion.

Rather than writing a wall of text and appearing to have a desire to win an argument and/or debate you (That is never my intention when it comes to things as monumentally serious and potentially meaningful as these things absolutely are, in my opinion) - I will simply offer a short ten-minute video for your mere consideration - should you choose to consider it (because it directly relates to your suggestion above ) and will leave it at that.

It's a Yale student asking questions of Abdu Murray (Former Muslim - Christian apologist)

https://youtu.be/D_5IM6DU2Gk?si=beWSmT-joVGzIdPD

[Marcus]

You’ve misunderstood. I’m trying to ascertain what you think and believe. Where your belief has its lines. So, is it your belief that the Mormon version of Jesus is an acceptable path? Do you think Jewish people are on the right path? What about Scientologists?

...There are no Ceeboo paths - The path back to our Creator has been provided (available for all) by the only one who could have provided it (Jesus/God)...

But that is a ceeboo path, because there is no evidence other than you or some other human saying so.

There are no true/valid Ceeboo lines - No true/valid Joseph Smith lines - No true/valid Muhammed lines - No true/valid Watch Tower lines - No true/valid Talmudic Judaism lines - No true/valid Ron Hubbard lines. There are no true/valid lines that are drawn by any created being

The path is paved by Jesus/God - The lines are drawn by Jesus/God.

Same problem. the Jesus/god path is defined/illustrated/explained by humans, or created beings as you call them. or, in this case, by you. I know you believe it, but when you present it as a fact rather than your belief in a discussion such as this, it just sound like proselytizing.

[ceeboo]

...There are no Ceeboo paths - The path back to our Creator has been provided (available for all) by the only one who could have provided it (Jesus/God)...

But that is a ceeboo path, because there is no evidence other than you or some other human saying so.

The collection of books (Bible - New Testament/Old Testament) claims to be God's revealed word to man. That claim can be tested/measured resulting in a conclusion of falsehood or truth (or maybe some level of not sure). People, across the span of hundreds and hundreds of years, have come to a variety of conclusions regarding the claim (Given such a claim, I'm not surprised)

If you reject the Bible as the inspired word of God, then I can understand why you would say that it's just ceeboo's path or some other humans (Biblical writers) saying so. Fair. But, if you happen to believe it is what it claims to be (I do), then you would not see it as ceeoo's claim - or some other past humans saying so - Rather, you will have no choice but to see that the only way back to a right-standing relationship with our Creator is by the one that God has revealed to mankind.

There are no true/valid Ceeboo lines - No true/valid Joseph Smith lines - No true/valid Muhammed lines - No true/valid Watch Tower lines - No true/valid Talmudic Judaism lines - No true/valid Ron Hubbard lines. There are no true/valid lines that are drawn by any created being

The path is paved by Jesus/God - The lines are drawn by Jesus/God.

Same problem. the Jesus/god path is defined/illustrated/explained by humans, or created beings as you call them. or, in this case, by you. I know you believe it, but when you present it as a fact rather than your belief in a discussion such as this, it just sound like proselytizing.

Same answer - It's only a problem if you reject the claim.

[Marcus]

But that is a ceeboo path, because there is no evidence other than you or some other human saying so.

The collection of books (Bible - New Testament/Old Testament) claims to be God's revealed word to man. That claim can be tested/measured resulting in a conclusion of falsehood or truth (or maybe some level of not sure). People, across the span of hundreds and hundreds of years, have come to a variety of conclusions regarding the claim (Given such a claim, I'm not surprised)

If you reject the Bible as the inspired word of God, then I can understand why you would say that it's just ceeboo's path or some other humans (Biblical writers) saying so. Fair. But, if you happen to believe it is what it claims to be (I do), then you would not see it as ceeoo's claim - or some other past humans saying so - Rather, you will have no choice but to see that the only way back to a right-standing relationship with our Creator is by the one that God has revealed to mankind.

There are no true/valid Ceeboo lines - No true/valid Joseph Smith lines - No true/valid Muhammed lines - No true/valid Watch Tower lines - No true/valid Talmudic Judaism lines - No true/valid Ron Hubbard lines. There are no true/valid lines that are drawn by any created being

The path is paved by Jesus/God - The lines are drawn by Jesus/God.

Same problem. the Jesus/god path is defined/illustrated/explained by humans, or created beings as you call them. or, in this case, by you. I know you believe it, but when you present it as a fact rather than your belief in a discussion such as this, it just sound like proselytizing.

Same answer - It's only a problem if you reject the claim.

So you get my point, then. You are presenting your beliefs as fact, when they have not been established as fact. reminds me of this scene:

Sheldon[to his friends]: No, this is my home now. Thanks to you, my career is over and I will spend the rest of my life here in Texas trying to teach evolution to creationists.

Mrs Cooper: You watch your mouth, Shelly. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion.

Sheldon: Evolution isn’t an opinion, it’s fact.

Mrs Cooper: And that is your opinion.

Sheldon[to his friends]: I forgive you. Let’s go home.

Mrs Cooper[happy that sheldon is going back to his job and won't teach heresy in texas]: Don’t tell me prayer doesn’t work.

although a raccoon and a whale are reminding me that you might not get the joke....

[I Have Questions]

The collection of books (Bible - New Testament/Old Testament) claims to be God's revealed word to man.

Does it? Where does it claim that?

The Bible states that women should be silent in Church, you believe that? Do you believe that to be God’s revealed word on the subject of women in Church?

[ceeboo]

So you get my point, then. You are presenting your beliefs as fact, when they have not been established as fact.

No - Several times in this thread (including posts directly engaging you) I have stated that they were my views. I even said that you need not agree with my view.

Here was (in part) one of our exchanges:

Not really, from my view. While we are all created in the image of our Creator/God, we are not all the children of God. We can become the adopted children of God and this adoption has nothing to do with our works or our merit. It has everything to do with being purchased, as broken as we were/are, by the sacrificial blood of God. We were all bought, it's up to each and every one of us to consider/recognize that and accept the path...

And this would be the path that aligns with your particular religious beliefs?

Yes, my view (as quoted above) would in fact be my view.

Anyway, I am not interested in further exchanges about this. My views are my views and I stand by them. Should you make another reply about this, I am happy to give you the last word and leave it there.

[ceeboo]

The collection of books (Bible - New Testament/Old Testament) claims to be God's revealed word to man.

Does it? Where does it claim that?

Dozens and dozens of places - If you really want to know, you can google it.

The Bible states that women should be silent in Church, you believe that? Do you believe that to be God’s revealed word on the subject of women in Church?

You got me!

Having been in countless serious, deep, interesting, and thought-provoking discussions about the Bible, I have never heard such a wise and novel challenge. You're brilliant.

I am happy to give you the last word as well - and leave it at that - should you reply again.