Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?

[Morley]

He taught humanity concerning the one God that is worshipped as our Father in Heaven.

Even the polytheistic Romans taught that God was father. The Roman name 'Jupiter' comes from the Greek 'Zeus Pater'--Zeus Father.



edit: MG, your claims seem to depend on your own ignorance of other faiths.

[Moksha]

He taught humanity concerning the one God that is worshipped as our Father in Heaven.

Even the polytheistic Romans taught that God was father. The Roman name 'Jupiter' comes from the Greek 'Zeus Pater'--Zeus Father.



edit: MG, your claims seem to depend on your own ignorance of other faiths.

Wasn't Odin called the All-Father? And let's not forget the contemporary Terry Pratchett and the Hogfather.

[I Have Questions]

He taught humanity concerning the one God that is worshipped as our Father in Heaven.

Even the polytheistic Romans taught that God was father. The Roman name 'Jupiter' comes from the Greek 'Zeus Pater'--Zeus Father.

edit: MG, your claims seem to depend on your own ignorance of other faiths.

It’s hard to fathom just how uneducated on these things MG 2.0 is.

Monotheism characterizes the traditions of Zoroastrianism,[8] Bábism, the Baháʼí Faith, Christianity,[9] Deism, Druzism,[10] Eckankar, Sikhism, Manichaeism, Islam, Judaism, Samaritanism, Mandaeism, Rastafari, Seicho-no-Ie, Tenrikyo, Yazidism, and Atenism. Elements of monotheistic thought are found in early religions such as ancient Chinese religion, Tengrism, and Yahwism.[2][11][12]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism

His biggest mistake is in assuming he’s smarter and better read than everyone else on this board, and that he’s here to educate everyone. If he gets out of his own way he could actually learn some things from the very bright people that post here.

[Manetho]

Even the polytheistic Romans taught that God was father. The Roman name 'Jupiter' comes from the Greek 'Zeus Pater'--Zeus Father.

edit: MG, your claims seem to depend on your own ignorance of other faiths.

It’s hard to fathom just how uneducated on these things MG 2.0 is.

Nice of him to prove my point, though.

[yellowstone123]

MG 2.0 wrote:

I agree that there is no other way by which mankind can be saved other than through Him who was slain on the cross and redeemed us through His blood. The Garden of Gethsemane and the cross were the culmination of a life in which Jesus taught and set by example the way back to the kingdom of God. The Atonement completed his earthly mission.

I think where we my see things differently is the full ‘effect’ of the Atonement. I think that Jesus’s work was for everyone. Including those that never have the opportunity to accept and live according to his commandments while living in the flesh. As Doc is alluding to that is a LOT of people. I would have a hard time believing that a God who loves ALL his children would not provide a way by which they can all be saved in a kingdom of glory

MG 2.0, thank you for your answer. To me this sounds like Protestant Christianity, except when you start separating people into kingdoms. I would ask you about the following found in the LDS church’s Articles of Faith and I'm gong to underline what traditional Christianity may have issues with:

The Third Article of Faith of the LDS church: "We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

The Fourth Article of Faith of the LDS church: “We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

The Fifth Article of Faith by the LDS church “We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.”

The LDS church will say only they have authority. All baptisms not done by a LDS priesthood holders are invalid. Good people who have knew nothing of Jesus Christ and die but lived a good life with dwell in spirit paradise. They will have their names submitted to the LDS church who will do a proxy baptism and confirmation in an LDS temple by those who have the authority. That person will then have a decision in spirit paradise to accept or reject the work done for them in the temple.

So the non LDS Christian, Charles Gabriel Hutchinson who wrote "I Stand All Amazed" was not baptized correctly as it must be done by one who had authority therefore his baptism is not valid. The non LDS Christian Robert Robinson who wrote the song, "Come Thou Fount Of Every Blessing," well, his baptism is not valid, either. Martin Lowrie Hofford who wrote the song, "Abide with Me; ’Tis Eventide" was not baptized properly because who ever did it, did not have the proper authority.

This is what the LDS church teaches today. I think you understand why some people just are done with that type of thought process. Fortunately for some, the Shepard knows this and simply directs them to another pasture.


Dan McClellan spoke on Youtube about the Book of Mormon phrase, " "For we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do." He said he has looked that verse and history and thought it could be written as, For we know that it is by grace that we are saved, despite all we can do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf6eQBLYj0g

[MG 2.0]

He taught us how to pray to that same Father. Had this ever been done by any of the other mystics, men/gods, or healers?

Yes. John The Baptist taught people how to pray.

Since John the Baptist was the forerunner of Jesus who prepares the way for Jesus, there are many similarities between their ministries. John taught his disciples how to pray. Jesus also taught his disciples how to pray. But there is less information on the pattern of the prayer taught by John.

https://christianity.stackexchange.com/ ... ptist-pray

1 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... ptures/New Testament/luke/11?lang=eng

Are you sure you actually read the Bible?

John was the forerunner of Christ. It is interesting that John’s disciples came to Jesus and asked him to teach them how to pray even though they had been taught by John. The first thing Jesus does is to instruct them to pray by addressing their Father in Heaven. We don’t know what words John used when he prayed but it might be significant that when his disciples went to Jesus that they were specifically told to address deity as their Father in Heaven.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

…my more fundamental problem with arguments about an early date for the New Testament texts is that they don't prove the grandiose claims about Jesus that we find in the New Testament are true. The early centuries of the Roman Empire abounded with stories of miracle-working figures of one kind or another, and those stories surged in popularity in the exact period when the gospels started to circulate. The earliest surviving version of the gospel story makes Jesus look not all that different from other wonder-workers and apocalyptic preachers from that era who were claimed by their followers to have some kind of special connection to divinity. Because Christianity is enormously important today and the followings of those other figures died out nearly 2,000 years ago, we read the texts about Jesus in isolation without being aware of the other figures who were characterized in similar terms.

Hi Manetho. Pre-Christ and post-Christ did any of the other belief systems and/or men that were worshipped as divinity or having connections with divinity make claims to this man or divinity being associated with or related to a “Father in Heaven?”

I could be mistaken but it seems as though Jesus may have been the first one to come along to make that claim.

I know folks here are wary of A.I. as am I (I’ve had incorrect and/or hallucinatory answers from inquiries), but here is some information retrieved in regards to this question I am asking you:

Inquiry: What does it mean to say that we are all children of a common father in heaven?

In the context of Mormonism, the phrase "we are all children of a common Father in Heaven" refers to the belief that God is the literal father of our spirits. This doctrine is often referred to as the "divine parentage" or "premortal existence."

According to Mormon theology, before we were born on Earth, we lived with God as his spirit children in a pre-mortal existence. During this time, we were taught and prepared for our earthly lives. As part of God's plan for us, we were sent to Earth to gain physical bodies, experience mortality, and learn and grow through our experiences.

The belief that we are all children of God emphasizes the idea that all people are connected through their shared spiritual heritage and that we are all part of God's family. This belief is meant to promote unity, compassion, and understanding among people, as we are all seen as brothers and sisters in a larger spiritual sense.

Inquiry: Are Mormons the only ones that believe this?

While the specific doctrine of premortal existence and divine parentage is unique to Mormonism, the broader idea that humans are children of God or connected through a shared spiritual heritage is present in many other faiths and belief systems.

For example:

1. Christianity: Many Christians believe that God is the father of all humanity and that we are created in his image. This idea is present in the Bible and is central to many Christian teachings.

2. Islam: Muslims believe that all humans are created by Allah and are part of the larger Muslim community, or Ummah.

3. Judaism: The Torah teaches that all people are descended from Adam and Eve, the first humans created by God.

4. Hinduism: Hindus believe that all beings are manifestations of the divine and are connected through their shared spiritual essence, or Atman.

While these faiths may not share the specific details of the Mormon belief in premortal existence, they all emphasize the idea that humans are connected through a shared spiritual heritage and relationship with the divine.

Inquiry: Besides Jesus Christ, what other religions or belief systems at the time of Jesus Christ believed in a God that was literally our father in heaven.

At the time of Jesus Christ, there were several religious and philosophical belief systems that held some version of the belief that humans were descended from or connected to the divine. Here are a few examples:

1. Zoroastrianism: This Persian religion, which predates Christianity, taught that humans were created by Ahura Mazda, the supreme god, and that people were meant to aid him in his battle against evil.

2. Gnosticism: Gnosticism was a diverse and complex belief system that emerged in the first few centuries after Jesus' life. Many Gnostic teachings emphasized the idea of a "divine spark" within each person, connecting them to the spiritual realm.

3. Neoplatonism: This philosophical movement, which developed in the 3rd century AD, taught that humans had a divine soul that was connected to the ultimate source of all being, known as the One.

4. Hermeticism: This esoteric belief system, which emerged in the Hellenistic period, taught that humans were part of a larger spiritual reality and could achieve enlightenment through knowledge and understanding of the divine.


Inquiry: What about in the one or 200 years before Before Christ and within the first 100 years after Christ

During the period you mentioned, there were several belief systems that included ideas about a divine connection between humans and the divine:

1. Stoicism: This philosophical school of thought, which emerged in Greece around 300 BCE, taught that humans were connected to the divine Logos, or reason, and that this connection could be cultivated through virtuous living.

2. Essenes: This Jewish sect, which existed during the time of Jesus, emphasized the idea of a spiritual brotherhood and believed that they were chosen by God to lead a pure and righteous life.

3. Mystery Cults: These religious groups, which were popular throughout the Mediterranean world during the Hellenistic and Roman periods, often emphasized the idea of union with a divine figure, such as Dionysus or Isis.

4. Pythagoreanism: This philosophical movement, which emerged in Greece around 500 BCE, taught that humans had a divine soul that was connected to the larger harmony and order of the universe.

These belief systems, along with others that emerged during this period, all shared some version of the idea that humans were connected to the divine and could cultivate that connection through various spiritual practices or ways of living.

Inquiry: But were any of these gods you’ve referred to in this conversation actually worshipped as a father in heaven in who’s image we are created?

While some of the belief systems I mentioned did emphasize a connection between humans and the divine, the specific idea of a "Father in Heaven" who created humans in his image is most closely associated with monotheistic religions like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

In ancient Greek and Roman religion, for example, the gods were often seen as human-like beings with specific roles or areas of influence, but they were not necessarily viewed as creators or father figures in the same way that the God of the Abrahamic religions is. Similarly, many of the mystery cults emphasized union with a divine figure, but these figures were often understood as archetypes or personifications of natural forces, rather than as a personal creator or father.

That being said, some of the philosophical movements of the time, such as Stoicism and Pythagoreanism, did emphasize the idea of a divine Logos or rational order that was present in all things, including humans. However, this concept was not necessarily understood in the same way as the "Father in Heaven" of the Abrahamic religions.

Inquiry: Did the teachings of Jesus differ from these other belief systems in that he taught of a father in heaven?

Yes, the teachings of Jesus about God as a "Father in Heaven" were indeed distinct from many of the other belief systems that were present in the ancient Mediterranean world. While some of these systems emphasized a connection between humans and the divine, the specific idea of a personal, loving, and compassionate God who created humans in his image was a unique and powerful aspect of Jesus' message.

In the Gospels, Jesus frequently refers to God as his "Father" and teaches his followers to pray to God as "Our Father in Heaven." He emphasizes the idea that God is a personal and loving creator who cares deeply about his children and desires a relationship with them.

This emphasis on a personal, loving God was in contrast to many of the other belief systems of the time, which often emphasized a more impersonal or detached relationship between humans and the divine. Jesus' teachings about a Father in Heaven were a key aspect of his message and helped to distinguish his teachings from other religious and philosophical movements of the time.

Inquiry: Were these teachings known and received in the very first years of Christianity and at the time Jesus taught his disciples?

Yes, the teachings of Jesus about God as a loving and personal Father in Heaven were present from the very beginning of Christianity and were central to the message that Jesus shared with his disciples. In fact, the earliest written records of Jesus' life and teachings, the Gospels, contain numerous references to God as a loving and compassionate Father.

For example, in the Sermon on the Mount, which is recorded in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus teaches his followers to pray to God as "Our Father in Heaven" and emphasizes the importance of forgiveness and love as central aspects of God's character. Similarly, in the Gospel of John, Jesus frequently refers to God as his Father and emphasizes the intimate relationship between himself and the Father.

It's worth noting that the concept of God as a Father in Heaven was not entirely new to Judaism at the time of Jesus, as there are references to God as a father figure in the Hebrew scriptures. However, Jesus' emphasis on God's personal and loving nature was a distinctive aspect of his teachings and helped to shape the development of early Christianity.

Might we consider that Jesus was a ‘one off’ in relation to all the other gods and goddesses and divine ‘man gods’ and miracle workers during, before, and after Christ walked the earth?

He made the claim of being related and/or associated with his “Father in Heaven”. And He taught that we should worship and obey this same Father God.

Regards,
MG

In the responses I’ve seen I’m not convinced that other sages, mystics, or god/men and/or miracle workers before and after Christ were teaching that we should or ought develop a relationship with our Father in Heaven.

Jesus was apparently the first one to come along and do so.

If this is true, that is significant.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

...I know folks here are wary of A.I. as am I (I’ve had incorrect and/or hallucinatory answers from inquiries)...

You? You are now 'wary' of A.I.??????

I never said I wasn’t. But as has been mentioned by another person on this thread A.I. can be very useful and is becoming more and more accurate. In my previous post to Mantheo I found it quite useful to consolidate a lot of information into a very informative chain of inquiries and answers that I think may be useful in the discussion.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Specifically, how does Jesus, himself, claim that he was different?

John 10:22-42

22 It was now winter, and Jesus was in Jerusalem at the time of Hanukkah, the Festival of Dedication. 23 He was in the Temple, walking through the section known as Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The people surrounded him and asked, “How long are you going to keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus replied, “I have already told you, and you don’t believe me. The proof is the work I do in my Father’s name. 26 But you don’t believe me because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, 29 for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else.[a] No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand. 30 The Father and I are one.”

31 Once again the people picked up stones to kill him. 32 Jesus said, “At my Father’s direction I have done many good works. For which one are you going to stone me?”

33 They replied, “We’re stoning you not for any good work, but for blasphemy! You, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus replied, “It is written in your own Scriptures that God said to certain leaders of the people, ‘I say, you are gods!’[c] 35 And you know that the Scriptures cannot be altered. So if those people who received God’s message were called ‘gods,’ 36 why do you call it blasphemy when I say, ‘I am the Son of God’? After all, the Father set me apart and sent me into the world. 37 Don’t believe me unless I carry out my Father’s work. 38 But if I do his work, believe in the evidence of the miraculous works I have done, even if you don’t believe me. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me, and I am in the Father.”

39 Once again they tried to arrest him, but he got away and left them. 40 He went beyond the Jordan River near the place where John was first baptizing and stayed there a while. 41 And many followed him. “John didn’t perform miraculous signs,” they remarked to one another, “but everything he said about this man has come true.” 42 And many who were there believed in Jesus.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

He taught humanity concerning the one God that is worshipped as our Father in Heaven.

Even the polytheistic Romans taught that God was father. The Roman name 'Jupiter' comes from the Greek 'Zeus Pater'--Zeus Father.



edit: MG, your claims seem to depend on your own ignorance of other faiths.

Not the same.

Regards,
MG