My dillema - Raising my daughter correctly

[_Yoda]

My wife is still LDS, I do not attend. Although I have a cordial and small social relationship with the Mormons my wife attends church with, I am starting to become uneasy at the thought of my one year old daughter attending the indoctrination and utter brainwashing of primary. Its down the road but not upon me yet. I am left with two tasks that would give me the desired result:

1. Convince my wife to leave the cult
2. Convince my wife that having our daughter attend primary will dammage her ability to discern what real truth is.

I love my wife dearly but this issue is unnerving. The last thing I want is my daughter to become locked in the clutches of the cult but I am afraid my wife believes I have no say in this.

What would you do?

Hi, Vegas.

It's a tough call.

On the one hand, if I had young kids going to church each Sunday, learning some of the stuff they learn and singing some of the stuff they sing and bearing their "testimonies" on Fast Sunday, I would be really unhappy and frustrated. There are so many better things a child could be learning and enjoying with his/her father and mother on Sundays than worshiping a guy who got hung on a cross or tree or whatever. And taking the bread and water as symbols of his flesh and blood. That's really weird. My kids won't be learning any of that stuff, for sure.

On the other hand, my son is growing up in Japan and I think there isn't a chance in hell that he will ever be a Christian of any sort. That problem solved, at any rate. You, of course, are with your wife and should be raising the kids together, but you apparently don't feel like you have any say in how much influence the church will have on your kids.

That part I don't get. Wouldn't it be a pretty fair deal if she goes to church once or twice a month with her mom and on the other two weeks of the month, you do some other activities with her outside of church? As she gets older, then she can decide if she wants to go to church or do other things on Sundays. Or is your wife going to force her to church every Sunday? If you have no say, then something seems amiss.

But, I wouldn't force it so far that everything crumbles and you are left with divorce proceedings, alimony, etc. If it is worth it to you to keep your family together at all costs, then you just may have to suck it up and let things proceed and hope for the best.

But, I guess, I would push the envelope as far as possible until serious warning signs and then not go any further.

It depends on what is most important. Your daughter may love church and you'll have no chance to keep her from it, whatever you do. She also may hate it as she gets older and she will see through the nonsense with your help and answers to her questions.

Some of the future you won't be able to control and will have to just sit back and watch, as it were.

All the best to you. I know it would probably drive me to serious drinking. I'm sure you will handle it much better than I would. It would be nice to think that maybe we can all still be on these boards and can check in with each other and see how things are going 20 years from now. Wouldn't that be fascinating?

Hi Vegas!

Gramps gives some very solid advice. I agree with his approach, which, basically forces the ball back in your court with some thought-provoking choices.

For what it's worth....my husband is TBM. I grew up TBM, but started to doubt in the validity of the Church several years ago. I am, however, I suppose what you could call a "social Mormon". I'm keeping the peace for family reasons and am still active.

I have two teen-aged daughters (ages 14 and 17) who have attended YW, Seminary, etc.

However, I have taught them both to be independent thinkers. They both want to continue their education (and not attend BYU). They have learned to determine the good principles of the Church from a lot of the crap.

It's possible to do this, but it does take work and a lot of communication.

I sincerely hope that you find the solution that will work best for your family. And, I do think that as long as you love your wife and daughter, it's important to try to work things out to avoid divorce.

[_Mercury]

Here's one thing I wonder. If the church's brainwashing is so incredibly effective, then how did VegasRefugee and the rest of you mannage to see through it? Is the church really that hard to "escape" from? Is it really that dangerous? I can understand a feeling of frustration and confusion if you decide that another faith (or not faith) is correct, but I really think this whole cult business is blowing things way out of proportion. Certainly some church members are a bit too zealous for my tastes, but ultiately I think the church only has as much power as you give it.

I was exposed to many other sources outside of Mormonism and quite frankly, they stole two years of my life through the primary program brainwashing me to believe I would be incomplete without doing the two year self imprisonment.

Its a cult. Plain and simple.

[_Mercury]

Hi VR, i think you've received some good advice here. And, some rather reactionary fear mongering and castigations. TD, Jersey Girl, Ray and Moksha (even Coggins, in his unique way :-) come to mind in the first group...

I respectfully suggest, that YOUR daughter might have the "best-of-both-worlds". I think your concern for age 8 baptism might be a bit premature. I also suggest YOU look at what YOU will contribute to her nurturing in the nect 7 years.

How smart are YOU? How well do YOU cope? How perceptive, intuitive, informed, sensitive, affectionate, accomodating are YOU as a family member? Jersey Girl introduced, as i read her posts, child development and family relations to be a good ongoing study for YOU/EVERYONE???

Like that old LDS hymn suggests: "...do what's right, you have no need to fear..." Go with the flow, but use both oars, Bro... Warm regards, Roger

Let me paint a picture of reality for you - Mormonism in any fashion is neither healthy or beneficial. Therefore, lets draw a paralell between Mormon indoctrination and, oh lets say indoctrination ointo a simmilar situation such as new age philosophy and other bunk. There is no Best of both worlds scenario because there is no best of in Mormonism. The good absorbed by Mormonism is outweighed by the unbelievably bad of Mormonism.

The self loathing, the sexism and implied racism, the false histories, social stigmatization, marginalization and many other major problems are gained by taking Mormonism into ones life and thought processes.

[_Mercury]

by the way, DV, do you respect your daughter's choice of lifestyle? If it makes her happy, do you respect that?

She is told that it will make her happy. How is that choice?

[_asbestosman]

I was exposed to many other sources outside of Mormonism and quite frankly, they stole two years of my life through the primary program brainwashing me to believe I would be incomplete without doing the two year self imprisonment.

I'm sorry to hear that. The most exmos I've heard treasure their mission experiences. They just regret trying to convert others. How long have you hated the church anyhow?

Instead of poisoning your daughter's mind against the church, why not teach her to be tolerant of others including homosexuals, other races, etc.? Why not teach her how to be kind to those she disagrees with? Why not help her realize what logical fallacies are? Why not teach her to be careful about emotion-filled rhetoric (other than the obvious point that you love to use the word, "cult")? Why not help her develop her self-esteem?

[_asbestosman]

The problem is it isn't the Dark Ages, or the Middle Ages, or 1846 either. We're living in an INFORMATION AGE. Today you get the one message at church, but you can also get thousands of books from ebay, or you can go online to thousands of websites, or you can sit on a message board and debate these things. The world has shrunk to nothing. You can talk with people of every religious persuasion if you have the net.

I would also like to point out more people going to college. Sure you can go to BYU, but the problem is people are going to a history class or an archaeology class right after theology class. Somewhere along the line you're not going to hear the party line of your religion. That goes for all religions, not just Mormonism.

Exactly! So aren't VR's fears a bit exaggerated? It's not like Mormonism ever forbade me from going to the library and reading whatever I wanted. I've read on evolution, history, logical fallacies, other religions, philosophy, etc. I've been warned against reading anti books, but never forbidden from it (like from coffee or tea).

[_Ray A]

by the way, DV, do you respect your daughter's choice of lifestyle? If it makes her happy, do you respect that?

She is told that it will make her happy. How is that choice?

That's mind reading. Only the person can know if they're really happy. According to Mormons you should be in misery because you stopped going to church. At best they will think you "think you're happy", but "inside not really happy", and an even "worse fate awaits you". My belief is to live and let live. I have often seen my children heading for disaster and warned them, but in the end I say "okay, it's your life". When you've been through five teenagers you learn that any kind of coercion upon your children, even if you think they're making the wrong choices, will come back and bite you. Nothing wrong with warning, and telling them your POV, but in the end let them make their own choices.

[_Runtu]

I'm sorry to hear that. The most exmos I've heard treasure their mission experiences. They just regret trying to convert others. How long have you hated the church anyhow?

Instead of poisoning your daughter's mind against the church, why not teach her to be tolerant of others including homosexuals, other races, etc.? Why not teach her how to be kind to those she disagrees with? Why not help her realize what logical fallacies are? Why not teach her to be careful about emotion-filled rhetoric (other than the obvious point that you love to use the word, "cult")? Why not help her develop her self-esteem?

I don't treasure or hate my mission. I learned a lot about myself while I was in Bolivia. I met some really wonderful people, and I learned how tough I really was. I never would have imagined I could live under such deplorable conditions for so long. I also met my wife there. I learned I didn't need material things to be happy.

The big negative for me has been the toll those two years took on my health. I have intestinal scarring and chronic digestive system problems, and will for the rest of my life. My wife has ulcerative colitis, which her doctor is sure is a result of her 18 months in Bolivia. She also was bitten by an "assassin" bug while there, which put her in the hospital for a couple of weeks.

I'm not really sure I regret getting people involved in Mormonism. That's what I believed I should do at the time.

[Anonymous]

The problem is it isn't the Dark Ages, or the Middle Ages, or 1846 either. We're living in an INFORMATION AGE. Today you get the one message at church, but you can also get thousands of books from ebay, or you can go online to thousands of websites, or you can sit on a message board and debate these things. The world has shrunk to nothing. You can talk with people of every religious persuasion if you have the net.

I would also like to point out more people going to college. Sure you can go to BYU, but the problem is people are going to a history class or an archaeology class right after theology class. Somewhere along the line you're not going to hear the party line of your religion. That goes for all religions, not just Mormonism.

Exactly! So aren't VR's fears a bit exaggerated? It's not like Mormonism ever forbade me from going to the library and reading whatever I wanted. I've read on evolution, history, logical fallacies, other religions, philosophy, etc. I've been warned against reading anti books, but never forbidden from it (like from coffee or tea).

What fears? I don't want to speak for what he fears.

Bond

[_Mercury]

I was exposed to many other sources outside of Mormonism and quite frankly, they stole two years of my life through the primary program brainwashing me to believe I would be incomplete without doing the two year self imprisonment.

I'm sorry to hear that. The most exmos I've heard treasure their mission experiences. They just regret trying to convert others. How long have you hated the church anyhow?

Instead of poisoning your daughter's mind against the church, why not teach her to be tolerant of others including homosexuals, other races, etc.? Why not teach her how to be kind to those she disagrees with? Why not help her realize what logical fallacies are? Why not teach her to be careful about emotion-filled rhetoric (other than the obvious point that you love to use the word, "cult")? Why not help her develop her self-esteem?

Ya know, maybee the young hitler youth brigade wasn't so bad. Ya see, all they would've had to do was just inform the children when they came home to ignore the racial superiority lessons, the militaristic teachings and whole pump-up for Deutchland. Maybee the world would be a better place.

Your eyes are covered, your ears are stopped up and you are unable to speak evil because your mind has been told its wrong to do so. Your missing the whole point of this conversation.