bcspace wrote:Again, you don't know me. My goal is a master's in theology.
A laudible goal sweetie pie. Many who claimed to have achieved it have tangled with me on these issues and lost badly. A degree is not proof of knowledge or wisdom.
Declaring empty victories at the beginning of a debate is not winning. I'm sorry. When you put your money where your mouth is, I'll believe you. But all you can do is hurl vitrol that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
Don't patronize, you're already embarrassing yourself enough.
Need we get into the Book of Mormon and how it states that being in God's disfavor darkens your skin? How about the additional books of Moses and Abraham talking about cursed black people?
Need we remind a Theology major to look up 'racism' in the dictionary? Theology describing the origins of skin color is not racism.
*sigh* Yet another myopic individual who cannot see past his leaders' brainwashing enough to understand what it feels like for someone who is not "pure, white, and delightsome" to read about such things in a book that their church (well, former, I got some common sense and left such rediculousness) claims is more correct than the Bible. I sat and tried to justify the "skins of darkness" quotes in the Book of Mormon with other black people, and it was so terribly degrading.
But like you would care. You were no doubt among my crucifiers at FAIR for daring to tell my story.
I'm sorry to have to break this down to you, but we are all one race. Trying to say that God loves white people more than anyone else is wrong, and that is what makes your Book of Mormon so sick. Pure, white, and delightsome? Loathsome dark skins?
How is the priesthood ban not racist?
For the same reason as the above. By your logic, the Bible is racist.
Perhaps this is why the white boys never came near me, a double whammy!
You don't understand why the Jews were a "people set apart" any more than they did. They weren't supposed to be arrogantly separated, they were supposed to be unique by their behavior, yet a beacon of love and light to the rest of the world! They failed at their Old Testament mission, and the LDS church has failed through folks like you.
BCSpace, where's the substance behind your little uber-mormon claims? At least I started a thread refuting this garbage, you were too scared to much as look at it...afraid you might have to think for yourself?
Mind you, these are tenets of your religion, add ons to the Bible. Not indicative of mine.
The Bible never claims to be the only and complete word of God. Quite the opposite in fact.
What does this have to do with what I said? And you can FOR FREAKING ONCE back up what you say. All you do is make empty statements. So if you're going to bring me down like you claim, bring it. Quotes.
It's cute that you can laugh at another's aspirations because you cannot defend your own faith. What Greek are you going to turn around to prove to us that God is a committee?
What verse are you going to give to gainsay the fact that Jesus has a God and said so himself in John 20:17?
You want to get into the semantics of the trinity? Mainstream Christians are not polytheistic like you. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three manifestations of one God.
"Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is one God"
Those blasted Jews that DCP so disparages. They had it wrong! And so does the rest of the Christian world by your standards.
Oh, and you still didn't reference any Greek. Perhaps because you've never looked at any of it, past what you've been told to through your "faith promoting" material.
Again, if you speak the language that this board requires, you would have stayed on the original topic of the thread.
You made a claim. I'm challenging it. Quite on topic.
Straw men and chest beating are not on topic.
The D&C, Book of Mormon, and other works of fiction authored by Joseph Smith are not the subject here.
But since your claim is that the Bible contradicts LDS doctrine, you'll first have to know what LDS doctrine and context is. Seems to be a subject on which you are quite ignorant.
I spent five years allowing that church to convince me that I was less than worthy of God, because of the color of my skin, because of my upbringing, and because of my very nature. Oh no, uber-mormon, I know very well what LDS doctrine is. I went through the temple, I changed my life like every convert. But I came to my senses and realized that such a faith cannot possibly be good for me. But I know, you've spent more time in brainwashed mode, so you know more/better, right?
I know that the rest of us Christians are out in the cold due to the story he told his followers, but the rest of us are simply awake and in the real world.
I am in the world, but not of it.
ROFL, yes, as your arrogance so clearly shows.
The Bible...the subject of this thread, remember? Is a compilation of many different stories, perspectives, prophecies, utterances from a variety of different sources. I'm not a fundamentalist like you, so I can view the Bible for what it is, and see God in it without having to attribute every single word to him.
And yet again you claimed that the Bible contradicts LDS doctrine. You said it yourself...
And it does. I'm not black because I'm the seed of Cain. You are not a member of some elite church group that God favors over everyone else on the planet. Joseph Smith wasn't foretold by the Bible.
It is my opinion that there are some parts of the LDS faith and also Conservative Christianity that are simply not biblical.
Where is your proof?
I hate people who just argue for the sake of intellectual masturbation. HELLO! FUNDAMENTALISM IS NOT CHRISTIAN! Saying that God hates gay people is not Christian! Where did Jesus say anything about this subject? Claiming that everyone but those in your heavenly country club are hellbound is not Christian! Hello! Romans 2:14, and not your whacked KJV, get a real translation. Do you really feel that God has commanded you to spiritually disenfranchise other people, people you don't know, people you've never met, because of your lack of ability to properly interperet what the Bible says? Someone once tried to tell me that all non-Christians were going to hell (and she meant you, too...to her Mormons aren't Christian, but I disagree). I refuse to believe in such a God.
When Jesus spoke of bringing a sword instead of peace, he spoke of the uproar that would be caused when folks were forced to actually think outside their prejudice. Hearing stories of LDS families split up by members who leave the church is quite an example, though I know you'll think the LDS members who ostracize their family members who leave the church are the righteous ones.
The reason why I started this thread is because of the countless times I've seen others abuse folks in God's name, claiming the Bible backed their racism, or their need to ostracize others from church...the need to be better than others, "God's chosen".
I know you cannot grasp this, needing as you do, to be a member of some elite religious group. However, if you wish, you can go back and read the many insightful posts in this thread not put there by yourself or Gaz. It's very educational.
What I've learned is that people like you are the root of the racism problem. You need to stop looking at yourself and others in terms of skin color. It's quite refreshing actually (from personal experience).
Just because I can talk about a sensitive subject that you would rather just forget about, doesn't make me racist. I have never witheld any good thing from anybody based on color. And I don't belong to a faith that disparages people of other races, so take that moot point and sit on it. All you can do in the face of what I say is call me a racist, and plug your ears, rather than hear what is being said. How childish, selfish, and cruel. And yet when history is repeated, folks like you sit in sackcloth and ashes, wondering why.
It's very educational.
Your invective is not educating except on the subject of what kind of person you really are. But that's not the topic of discussion so why won't you back up your claims or talk about the Bible?
Personal attacks instead of talking about the subject, like everone else here, save one actually did. ROFL
Oh, and while you're at it, go ahead and show us all those scriptures that says that God is in essence many gods.
The Bible simply teaches the plurality of Gods. It says nothing about the Three being the same essence. Let's see how you swallow on John 20:17 and then I'll give you another. Perhaps something from Hebrews or Exodus.......I noticed you are now avoiding 1 Cor 8:4-6. lol
I hate ignorance so much. Did you not see the QUOTATION MARKS around the words "gods" and "lords"? What does it usually mean when you put quotation marks around something? Here, let me help you. I think you're really "insightful"
We know already the rote one about the Spirit in the form of a dove flying over Jesus' head, that's one of the most tired and played out scriptures that LDS use to justify their faith. Yes, Jesus speaks of the Father as if they're separate. But he also speaks of them being one in purpose. It's all hermeunetics. My point is that your church and other fundamentalist organizations can and will use the Bible (wrongly) as a tool of hatred.
Sophomoric. There are much better examples such as the one I gave you.
Then you should have given them.
I'm reading a book right now that spoke of slave owners telling their slaves that the Bible backed them...but not letting them learn to read so they could see it for themselves.
I have never agreed with that logic or slavery.
But you agree with the quotes in your holy books about how my people got here. This point that you missed, was how listening to others instead of doing the research yourself is what causes misinformation. It wasn't about slavery itself. But hey, if you can't see the forest for the trees in one instance, what makes me think you can in this one? You'll just call me racist again, and claim yet another weak victory in a battle within a war you lost before you picked up your sword.
Such is your myopic faith, you listen to geratrics in white towers in SLC, and read only what they tell you. Hence, you'll never see reality or the truth. And I feel sorry for you, to be honest.
Actually, my 'leaders' have little to do with apologetic unless they personally engage in it which is rare. My apologetic is superior in everyway to the strawman you have built up.
*sigh* more Pathetic Peter Priesthood Pontification. You've shown nothing.
Not that it would bother you,
I'll mourn your loss, same as any other.
Does your faith teach you to look down on everyone who isn't like you? And yet you call yourself a follower of Christ.
I'm just going to dispair in the telestial kingdom with a bad sex partner for all eternity while you get the glory of being God's chosen, and all becauase of a fantastic story a young man told 200 years ago.
LOL! That's always what it's about for LDS critics. Sex. They're so afraid of losing it they must use it in every filthy way, forgetting the sweeter and deeper sexual relationship God prescribes (Proverbs 5:18-19) Take a dose of 2 Timothy 2:20 will ya?
Um, don't go there. I'm no whore, you sadistic little facist. 2 Tim 2:20? Ignoble purposes? Um, sleeping with other people's wives and claiming God made you do it was noble?
BCSpace, you've been quite amusing today, and it took me all of five minutes to both respond to you, and look up the scriptures you misquoted. I hope you had a good sunday of being brainwashed.