LDS Sexuality

[_Jason Bourne]

Take polygamy... I have a sense that many LDS men are chomping at the bit.

Really. You do? How? Have you interviewed a few hundred or thousand? I sense this is a unsubstantiated supposition on your part. Most LDS men really don't think a whole lot about it and most I talk to really are not that enthused.

They hold in their minds that there will be a time where they can have sex with many wives, have a harem, life the "dream" of a powerful God with his females surrounding him.

Please report to us just how many LDS men you have talked to that hold this view.

I think this idea thwarts the love and intimacy and care for one's wife.

It certainly;y could if it were really a view they held. Some may, most don't. Most LDS men are trying to be good husbands to the one wife and rarely if ever think about a harem like you fantasize they do.

I get the sense from some LDS guys that they have to suffer for this life with only one woman but as soon as they die, the real form of Patriarchy... the Godly form will begin.

I think your sense is broken. I don't really care about your sense. Give us some hard facts or drop the fuzzy sense.

My observation is that there are many great non-LDS men who love their wives and for whom the idea of polygamy is truly sickening.

My observation is that there is mush more real life adultery on the part on non LDS men then LDS men on a percentage basis. I think non LDS men or men in general are not always that noble. The men I work with tease me about polygamy and say they would join the church id we brought it back. These man almost all, when we are out of town on business, visit strip clubs and try to get t me to join them. I think you have a skewed sense about men.

Conversely, women who hold the idea that in the next life they will be one of many polygamous wives do not seem to find that amazing bond and intimacy that can occur between a man and woman. I'm not sure if those women who like the idea of polygamy have just thwarted their innate desire for sex and intimacy because of their "reality" that they will live an eternity being just another wife among a harem, OR if they truly just do not care much for sex and intimacy, and therefore find the idea of one's husband sleeping with other women a good thing.

I could agree that the ides of polygamy in the after life could disturb LDS women but again, I do not think it is a topic they dwell on all that much.
Either way, I think the very teaching of polygamy is very harmful to marriages, and sexual and emotional intimacy.

[_Yoda]

I could agree that the ides of polygamy in the after life could disturb LDS women but again, I do not think it is a topic they dwell on all that much.

Some of us dwell on it more than you might, think, Jason. ;)

It's not something I spend every waking hour thinking about, but it is a concept that concerns me. It was basically this concept that put me on my path of "cafeteria Mormonism", if you will. LOL

I simply don't believe that every man will be "required" to have more than one wife in the next life. I do think that those who practiced polygamy here, and were sealed, will be able to stay together in the next life if they choose to, but I don't think it's going to be a requirement for everyone.

And, if I'm wrong...then I suppose I will be destroyed or whatever, because that's not a principle I am willing to live...here or in the eternities.

[_barrelomonkeys]

My observation is that there are many great non-LDS men who love their wives and for whom the idea of polygamy is truly sickening.

My observation is that there is mush more real life adultery on the part on non LDS men then LDS men on a percentage basis. I think non LDS men or men in general are not always that noble. The men I work with tease me about polygamy and say they would join the church id we brought it back. These man almost all, when we are out of town on business, visit strip clubs and try to get t me to join them. I think you have a skewed sense about men.

Jason, do you not read these boards? There are LDS men on here and at MAD that laugh about the prospect of polygamy and make jokes about it! You think that is being respectful to their wives? I don't see it that way. I don't really see any difference except some cloak the disrespect in spiritual terms and then it's okay? Riiiight!

My problem is not so much that men are pigs... they ARE. But any notion that LDS are less piggish just because they use less explicit terms is bizarre to me. Ogling women at Church meetings is less creepy than other ogling elsewhere HOW exactly?

[_Jason Bourne]

Jason, do you not read these boards? There are LDS men on here and at MAD that laugh about the prospect of polygamy and make jokes about it! You think that is being respectful to their wives? I don't see it that way. I don't really see any difference except some cloak the disrespect in spiritual terms and then it's okay? Riiiight!

I don't visit MAD and I have not seen such a thing here.

My problem is not so much that men are pigs... they ARE. But any notion that LDS are less piggish just because they use less explicit terms is bizarre to me. Ogling women at Church meetings is less creepy than other ogling elsewhere HOW exactly

Some LDS men are pigs and some are not. I just don't buy TD's sense that LDS men are walking around with major anticipation for plural marriage.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Jason,

I didn't say ALL LDS men... many. And I didn't say ALL non-LDS men... I said many. There are good and not-so-good of all religions and beliefs and ideals.

Read the boards. There are MANY men who are looking toward the day!

And, I have talked to enough women to KNOW that polygamy is more of a problem, than you can imagine!

Guess what... lots of women are not going to talk to church men about it. They are supposed to embrace it, follow the prophet, support the church. Not complain or have questions. You know this!

But guess what else... you get women sharing their deep concerns about polygamy, and you will find out that the idea of being one of many wives, having one's husband sleep with multiple women for eternity, is harming their marriage, their sex life, and their intimate relationship. To think otherwise is to be naïve or in denial.

Wasn't it Vilante who instructed women to manage polygamy by not loving their husbands and considering him more like a visitor? Guess what Jason... that is good advice! Better to not love than to live a life of sorrow, suffering, degradation and pain. Why put your heart out there if you husband is going to end up with a hundred, or thousand, or five other women?

If the church cared at all about marriages and women they would let this nonsense go and start treating women with care, respect, and decency.


~dancer~

[_barrelomonkeys]

I don't visit MAD and I have not seen such a thing here.

Well here's one just from yesterday. I've seen them before on this board as well. I usually ignore it.

http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... 3&start=21

Oh, now I see why you, a never-mo, is interested in Mormonism. With good ol' Mormonism you don't have to choose between them. ;)

Of course abestosman was joking. But is that any different than non LDS men that are "just joking"? I don't really see it that way. Subtle sexism and subtle jokes about women being swapped about and having multiple wives is a joke that is no less piggish than explicit jokes.

Some LDS men are pigs and some are not. I just don't buy TD's sense that LDS men are walking around with major anticipation for plural marriage.

I have no idea about that. I just commented because I see all the subtle innuendos and yet at the same time some superiority complex that the ones making these jokes think they're less of a pig then men that aren't so subtle! Maybe it's just me, I want my pigs to wear wife beater shirts and have beer bellies. Not to be in Church wearing ties and acting like they are not the pigs.

[_Jason Bourne]

I didn't say ALL LDS men... many. And I didn't say ALL non-LDS men... I said many. There are good and not-so-good of all religions and beliefs and ideals.

I did not say you said all and it is not even many.

Read the boards. There are MANY men who are looking toward the day!

Wow the boards, now there is a scientific study. But I do not even see it much on the boards. Who here? Gaz maybe?

And, I have talked to enough women to KNOW that polygamy is more of a problem, than you can imagine!

I won't dispute this. I know it bugs my wife but she seems to bury it. In fact, she knows this is one of my major beefs with Joseph Smith.

Guess what... lots of women are not going to talk to church men about it. They are supposed to embrace it, follow the prophet, support the church. Not complain or have questions. You know this!

I have a few female friends in the church and we have discussed it. Most of them do not dwell on it. One actually likes the idea but I think she struggles to be an intimate person in general. She thinks it would give her a lot of freedom.

But guess what else... you get women sharing their deep concerns about polygamy, and you will find out that the idea of being one of many wives, having one's husband sleep with multiple women for eternity, is harming their marriage, their sex life, and their intimate relationship. To think otherwise is to be naïve or in denial.

So something the MAY happen AFTER THIS LIFE is bothering them enough in this life to damage their real marriage now as well as their intimacies? Cna you share more details on what some of these women say?

Wasn't it Vilante who instructed women to manage polygamy by not loving their husbands and considering him more like a visitor? Guess what Jason... that is good advice! Better to not love than to live a life of sorrow, suffering, degradation and pain. Why put your heart out there if you husband is going to end up with a hundred, or thousand, or five other women?

I do not recall.

If the church cared at all about marriages and women they would let this nonsense go and start treating women with care, respect, and decency.

The Church really does care about marriage and family. I think that is pretty apparent.

[_Jason Bourne]

Maybe it's just me, I want my pigs to wear wife beater shirts and have beer bellies. Not to be in Church wearing ties and acting like they are not the pigs.

I agree. Unfortunatly in my experience, some of those in the pews on Sunday are still male pigs.

[_truth dancer]

First Jason,

The subconscious is a very powerful thing. More powerful than we understand.

And, we are very good at protecting ourselves from pain.

I have no doubt whatsoever that even women who try not to think about it, who try to forget about it, who repress the reality of polygamy (in their belief system), are feeling the results of the belief. There is no question whatsoever. This is how our brains work... they protect us. But, repressed feelings and beliefs are there nontheless.

Secondly, even consciously many women understand how the idea of polygamy is harming their marriage. I think men who are honest with themselves would admit this as well.

Many women struggle with getting close, sharing themselves, attaching with their husbands, and being sexually open because of the very realization that they will be reduced to just one of many. It is a very real concern and it makes complete sense that this belief would harm a marriage. How could it not?

If you knew that next week your wife was going to meet and fall in love with five other men, you don't think it would impact your relationship?

The difference between SOME LDS men and non-LDS religious men (the good ones of both catagories), is that while non-LDS men believe it is wrong to have multiple women, a temptation of Satan, evil, hurtufl, or whatever... some LDS men think it is God's way, the ultimate form of marriage to have multiple women, they are just limited for this short earthly time. You do not see how this attitude can harm a relationship?

There are good LDS men and not-so-good LDS men.

The point is, the idea/belief/doctrine of polygamy hurts relationships. No getting around this.

I think the church has little concern for women. Or more accurately, the church cares for women so long as as they serve men.

~dancer~

[_Jason Bourne]

The subconscious is a very powerful thing. More powerful than we understand.

Perhaps.

And, we are very good at protecting ourselves from pain.

Some are some are not.

I have no doubt whatsoever that even women who try not to think about it, who try to forget about it, who repress the reality of polygamy (in their belief system), are feeling the results of the belief.

I am happy YOU have no doubt but your subjective sense is just that...subjective. Show me some evidence please.

There is no question whatsoever.

Yes there is. Don't present this touchy feely sense you think you have as fact. It is not fact and there are lots of questions about this stuff.

This is how our brains work... they protect us. But, repressed feelings and beliefs are there nontheless.

Perhaps.

Secondly, even consciously many women understand how the idea of polygamy is harming their marriage. I think men who are honest with themselves would admit this as well.

I am going to try to discuss this with my wife and see what she thinks. I will ask her is her strong LDS belief is causing our marriage problems given that with those strong beliefs there is a chance of polygamy in the here after.

Many women struggle with getting close, sharing themselves, attaching with their husbands, and being sexually open because of the very realization that they will be reduced to just one of many. It is a very real concern and it makes complete sense that this belief would harm a marriage. How could it not?

Many? What is many. See TD this is the problem I have with your posts. You have some good ideas but you post it with "Ihave the sense the many men this or many women that...and on and on, as if this is the norm and some major crisis for most LDS marriages. I just don't buy it. Some maybe, and maybe undertones for more then a few. I just don't see some makor crisis in LDS marriages for MANY because of this. Evidence for your speculatice sense would be nice.

If you knew that next week your wife was going to meet and fall in love with five other men, you don't think it would impact your relationship?

Of course badly.

The difference between SOME LDS men and non-LDS religious men (the good ones of both catagories), is that while non-LDS men believe it is wrong to have multiple women, a temptation of Satan, evil, hurtufl, or whatever... some LDS men think it is God's way, the ultimate form of marriage to have multiple women, they are just limited for this short earthly time. You do not see how this attitude can harm a relationship?

Ok I could buy that.

I think the church has little concern for women. Or more accurately, the church cares for women so long as as they serve men.

I think you are flat out wrong if you believe this.