wenglund wrote: Isn't it fascinating how the same events and circumstance can cause a loss of faith in some people and a gaining or increase in faith in other people--particularly those most directly involved in the events and circumstances?
Why do you suppose that is?
Well, considering that the primary motivator for having faith is rooted in comfort, this is hardly surprising at all.
I'd also attribute some of it to a lack of decent education.
One common denominator for high baptisms is poverty and suffering. People obviously need God most when times are unberably difficult.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
The Nehor wrote:It doesn't work that way. The people most concerned with their conduct, most dedicated to their responsibilities to the world are the ones who also believe in God. I can honestly say that in my experience they are much, much better at it than atheists. I could overload you with studies saying religious people have a lower incidence of spousal infidelity, a higher rate of financially and physically supporting their children, lower instances of criminal behavior, etc, etc.
I've been trying to think of what to say to you for an hour Nehor. I'm just sort of astounded at the level of generalization you utilize with the above statement.
The Nehor wrote:It doesn't work that way. The people most concerned with their conduct, most dedicated to their responsibilities to the world are the ones who also believe in God. I can honestly say that in my experience they are much, much better at it than atheists. I could overload you with studies saying religious people have a lower incidence of spousal infidelity, a higher rate of financially and physically supporting their children, lower instances of criminal behavior, etc, etc.
I've been trying to think of what to say to you for an hour Nehor. I'm just sort of astounded at the level of generalization you utilize with the above statement.
I did qualify the first part with 'in my experience'. Are you disputing the second?
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
As a matter of fact, I am so pissed off that I'm told I'm a bad person because I don't feel that God exists! Why Nehor do you feel the need to do that?
Well Nehor I'm an atheist/agnostic and in your experience you say the people with God in their lives are better than me (since I'm an atheist). How the hell do YOU know they're better than me?
Really? How do you know this factoid? Please illuminate.
barrelomonkeys wrote:Well Nehor I'm an atheist/agnostic and in your experience you say the people with God in their lives are better than me (since I'm an atheist). How the hell do YOU know they're better than me?
Really? How do you know this factoid? Please illuminate.
I didn't say that. You're jumping from general to specific.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
The Nehor wrote:It doesn't work that way. The people most concerned with their conduct, most dedicated to their responsibilities to the world are the ones who also believe in God.I can honestly say that in my experience they are much, much better at it than atheists. I could overload you with studies saying religious people have a lower incidence of spousal infidelity, a higher rate of financially and physically supporting their children, lower instances of criminal behavior, etc, etc.
What does that say Nehor? What does it say about me?
Last edited by Guest on Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Nehor wrote:I did qualify the first part with 'in my experience'. Are you disputing the second?
I will dispute the second at the least. Call for references as it were. Not that I'm an expert or have read official studies, but I have heard that the percentage of religious vs atheist who are incracerated is greater than that in the general population. To be fair I can't back up my statement, but I'd still be interested in studies which dispute this claim about prison which I have heard a few times.
For what it's worth (probably nothing) my experience has not been that atheists/agnostics are lacking.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
The Nehor wrote:It doesn't work that way. The people most concerned with their conduct, most dedicated to their responsibilities to the world are the ones who also believe in God.I can honestly say that in my experience they are much, much better at it than atheists. I could overload you with studies saying religious people have a lower incidence of spousal infidelity, a higher rate of financially and physically supporting their children, lower instances of criminal behavior, etc, etc.
What does that say Nehor? What does it say about me?
Absolutely nothing. Just like being told that many LDS are mentally deficient or that most LDS are self-righteous people who are only nice to potential converts would say nothing about me (both of these propositions have been stated on this board).
Sorry if what I said sounds harsh, I was countering a generalization with a generalization. It was not intended to target anyone. Asbestos, I did this research a couple of years ago. I'll see if I can find my old research and compare it to what is out there now.
Last edited by Guest on Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
KimberlyAnn wrote: God is going to sit on his hands and watch people get raped, tortured, and murdered, see them starve and hear them plead with him for food and drink, but he has the nerve to decline to assist them when it would be so easy for him to save them, feed them, heal them...
Where is God? What use is He anyway if He has the power to help but refuses?
KA
I'm backing my thoughts up to KA's comments here because this is the part about the concept of God that mystifies me. It isn't that there is this greater plan that God is to sit back and won't interfere with free agency, blah blah blah. It is the part that says a God that loves you and can see and know everything can blythely watch humans suffer. Isn't this akin to a mother throwing her infant into a bathful of water, sitting and watching it flail and then struggle and then fall under the water and then struggle to get breath and then die....while the mother thinks "it's ok..once you're dead you'll be all right." I don't understand how this is divine. I can't comprehend that this is an attribute of a divine being. Doesn't the struggle and pain of a child diminish the strength of a supposed perfect being?
I'm appalled and repulsed by this concept. I would not call this a great plan if this is indeed the plan God thought was the best one that could have been developed in order to train and test little embryonic gods in training.