What's so great about faith?

[_Nephi]

Can anyone provide a compelling reason for having faith on its practical merits?

Sorry for stepping in late into the conversation, but, without faith, you will never have a lasting loving relationship.

[_barrelomonkeys]

Yeah, and I'm sure you never intended the quip about special-ed people and church either, right?

Just a cute little off-color joke. Until it's aimed at you by a rabid fundamentalist Christian, and then all hell breaks loose.

Whatever.

Whats less retarded:

Believing in an imaginary friend or denial of the imaginary friend?

Whatever.

Neither is retarded. Retarded is when an individual has an IQ of under 70 and has problems in adapting to situations. There are different levels of retardation.

The children I work with that have learning disabilities and struggle for some sense of self worth are called names. I'm pretty sure they all have the social graces (even though social situations is something they all struggle with) to know that insults hurt others.

[_Some Schmo]

Yeah, and I'm sure you never intended the quip about special-ed people and church either, right?

Just a cute little off-color joke. Until it's aimed at you by a rabid fundamentalist Christian, and then all hell breaks loose.

Whatever.

I completely intended to refer to Wade as special ed. What's your point?

You know, this kind of stuff should only bother you if you think there's some truth to it. So... is there?

[_Some Schmo]

Can anyone provide a compelling reason for having faith on its practical merits?

Sorry for stepping in late into the conversation, but, without faith, you will never have a lasting loving relationship.

I've been married to my wife for over 13 years, and we've been living together almost 17 years. I can assure you that faith has nothing to do with it (unless you're somehow conflating the concept of faith with the concept of remaining faithful to your spouse, but those aren't the same thing).

[_Sam Harris]

Yeah, and I'm sure you never intended the quip about special-ed people and church either, right?

Just a cute little off-color joke. Until it's aimed at you by a rabid fundamentalist Christian, and then all hell breaks loose.

Whatever.

I completely intended to refer to Wade as special ed. What's your point?

You know, this kind of stuff should only bother you if you think there's some truth to it. So... is there?

Oh, what a pitiful and pathetic jab to cover up what you know was wrong for you to say, with Wade in it or not.

NO, I do not think that church is a place for special-ed people. Though I do find it very telling that smart and rational people like you who feel that they have a superior answer to the world than spirituality can say such an unethical thing.

But apparently trying to behave oneself is just for those Christians who are supposed to be living doormats, hence the constant allusions to "Christian behavior". We're not only one of the biggest problems with society today, we're also supposed to just lay on our backs and take whatever half-truths folks like you push forward.

Your comment was cruel. Someone else called you out on it. Be a man and admit that was a low blow for someone who apparently has "the answer" on such a hot issue as whether or not to have a spiritual life.

I'm sorry, but yes it does bother me when someone continues to insinuate that I am stupid for believing in the spiritual experiences that I've had. Sorry Schmo, but you are the minority, not me. Calling us dumb just because we won't all drop everything and agree with you is childish. And that goes for your other comrades on here who have done the same. Not one of you have provided the believing world with anything to work with a far as a solution.

And the last poster was correct. I know you hate faith, I'm sorry for what people have done in the name of religion to you and to others. But I'm not one of those people, and I'm sure many you come across each day can say the same.

If someone betrays your trust or hurts you in some way, your reason will only get you so far if that pain is deep enough. Faith (or let's use a synonym that might not frighten you as much, TRUST) is important in the dance of love, sorry to have to tell you that.

It's so rediculous that a person who believes in God or who chooses to attend church has to be stupid. Schmo, despite the character failings of some of the people I go to church with now, and have been to church with in the past few years, I would not expect the behavior (the gross labeling of someone's mind) that I've seen here from them. It is their beliefs that hold them in check. But I guess since there's no "pretend friend" holding you back, you can go and say anything you want to because you are accountable to no one.

There are believers out there who are accountable to themselves as well. And we're not fitting very comfortably in the molds you and your friends here construct. But trying to prove oneself is for the insecure. I'm done with this. I've come too far to be labeled an idiot by people who have not walked in my shoes.

[Alf'Omega]

Oh, what a pitiful and pathetic jab to cover up what you know was wrong for you to say, with Wade in it or not.

NO, I do not think that church is a place for special-ed people. Though I do find it very telling that smart and rational people like you who feel that they have a superior answer to the world than spirituality can say such an unethical thing.

But apparently trying to behave oneself is just for those Christians who are supposed to be living doormats, hence the constant allusions to "Christian behavior". We're not only one of the biggest problems with society today, we're also supposed to just lay on our backs and take whatever half-truths folks like you push forward.

Your comment was cruel. Someone else called you out on it. Be a man and admit that was a low blow for someone who apparently has "the answer" on such a hot issue as whether or not to have a spiritual life.

I'm sorry, but yes it does bother me when someone continues to insinuate that I am stupid for believing in the spiritual experiences that I've had. Sorry Schmo, but you are the minority, not me. Calling us dumb just because we won't all drop everything and agree with you is childish. And that goes for your other comrades on here who have done the same. Not one of you have provided the believing world with anything to work with a far as a solution.

And the last poster was correct. I know you hate faith, I'm sorry for what people have done in the name of religion to you and to others. But I'm not one of those people, and I'm sure many you come across each day can say the same.

If someone betrays your trust or hurts you in some way, your reason will only get you so far if that pain is deep enough. Faith (or let's use a synonym that might not frighten you as much, TRUST) is important in the dance of love, sorry to have to tell you that.

It's so ridiculous that a person who believes in God or who chooses to attend church has to be stupid. Schmo, despite the character failings of some of the people I go to church with now, and have been to church with in the past few years, I would not expect the behavior (the gross labeling of someone's mind) that I've seen here from them. It is their beliefs that hold them in check. But I guess since there's no "pretend friend" holding you back, you can go and say anything you want to because you are accountable to no one.

There are believers out there who are accountable to themselves as well. And we're not fitting very comfortably in the molds you and your friends here construct. But trying to prove oneself is for the insecure. I'm done with this. I've come too far to be labeled an idiot by people who have not walked in my shoes.

I'm sorry what I've written has upset you.

I don't remember ever calling you an idiot; I don't think you are.

I don't think religious people are idiots about everything; what I don't understand is how people who are rational about pretty much everything in their world view decide to forego that way of thinking when it comes to god. On matters of religion, my reaction to people talking about it is to think, "That's crazy!" But hey, that's just me.

I really wouldn't take anything I say here personally. I just don't understand why anyone would (unless what I've said speaks to something about them they don't like). Given that I don't actually know you, what difference does what I say really make? You know what I mean?

[_Nephi]

Can anyone provide a compelling reason for having faith on its practical merits?

Sorry for stepping in late into the conversation, but, without faith, you will never have a lasting loving relationship.

I've been married to my wife for over 13 years, and we've been living together almost 17 years. I can assure you that faith has nothing to do with it (unless you're somehow conflating the concept of faith with the concept of remaining faithful to your spouse, but those aren't the same thing).

So now, you "know"... Kinda like people saying, "I 'know' this church is true", but to start this relationship out, you start with faith, and besides, there is no "proof" you can provide to me that definitively shows that your wife loves you or vise versa. It starts as faith and by acting upon that faith, you now "know" without any solid "proof" that you can give to another.

Hence why faith is a needed thing in someone's life.

[_Some Schmo]

So now, you "know"... Kinda like people saying, "I 'know' this church is true", but to start this relationship out, you start with faith, and besides, there is no "proof" you can provide to me that definitively shows that your wife loves you or vise versa. It starts as faith and by acting upon that faith, you now "know" without any solid "proof" that you can give to another.

Hence why faith is a needed thing in someone's life.

Genuine love is a verb, not a noun. We can see concrete evidence of love by observing people's actions. The way my wife treats me on a day to day basis indicates that she loves me. That's concrete, observable evidence.

If you use the word "love" as a noun, then sure, there's no way to prove a person's internal experience one way or another. I tend not to think of love as a "feeling" since feelings are cheap and have little value or meaning. I don't really care so much what a person says about love as compared to what a person does that can be considered loving.

Again, I don't need faith in my wife's loving me. It happens daily, and the evidence is constantly reinforced.

So no, it's not in the least like saying "I know the church is true." There is absolutely no evidence that the church is what it claims to be, let alone regularly reinforced evidence.

[_Nephi]

So now, you "know"... Kinda like people saying, "I 'know' this church is true", but to start this relationship out, you start with faith, and besides, there is no "proof" you can provide to me that definitively shows that your wife loves you or vise versa. It starts as faith and by acting upon that faith, you now "know" without any solid "proof" that you can give to another.

Hence why faith is a needed thing in someone's life.

Genuine love is a verb, not a noun. We can see concrete evidence of love by observing people's actions. The way my wife treats me on a day to day basis indicates that she loves me. That's concrete, observable evidence.

Are you telling me that these actions cannot be faked by someone else, or that you can detect faking? Or, are you saying that someone who fakes these actions is displaying love, fake or not?

So no, it's not in the least like saying "I know the church is true." There is absolutely no evidence that the church is what it claims to be, let alone regularly reinforced evidence.

Great, prove to me that your wife loves you. I need proof.

[_Some Schmo]

Genuine love is a verb, not a noun. We can see concrete evidence of love by observing people's actions. The way my wife treats me on a day to day basis indicates that she loves me. That's concrete, observable evidence.

Are you telling me that these actions cannot be faked by someone else, or that you can detect faking? Or, are you saying that someone who fakes these actions is displaying love, fake or not?

First of all, are you going to suggest that somebody could "fake" it for 17 years? Alllllrighty then.

Let's pretend for a moment, however, that someone could fake it. What difference would it make? The net result is the same. If you're trying to tell me that genuine love is more about having warm fuzzy feelings then it is about performing loving actions, well, I pity you. Is it really possible for someone to be loving for malicious reasons?

You really need to get this straight in your head: love is something done, not something felt.

So no, it's not in the least like saying "I know the church is true." There is absolutely no evidence that the church is what it claims to be, let alone regularly reinforced evidence.

Great, prove to me that your wife loves you. I need proof.

Well, you'd have to come over and watch my wife be who she is for a length of time, and I could then highlight the distinguishing characteristics that would document her loving actions, but quite frankly, it's not that important to me that you believe it.