Politics, The Chosen Land, and Why we Fight

[_barrelomonkeys]

Truth Dancer, I think that Capitalism is America's God for good or ill.

Hi Mary. :)

I'm interested to know why you have that perspective. Could you elaborate? Thanks.

[_barrelomonkeys]

Country

1. Norway
2. Sweden
3. Canada
4. Belgium
5. Australia
6. United States
7. Iceland
8. Netherlands
9. Japan
10. Finland

I found this in a chart of standards of living. It seems some of those wicked "socialist" countries are doing well. In Australia some people fear we will have followed the American model and end up with working poor who are homeless.

Hi Aussie guy. Isn't it interesting as well that some of those wicked "socialist" countries fall behind the United States in your standard of living chart? I wonder what that means? If anything!

[_barrelomonkeys]

Misstaken I have a work collegue who just came back from Las Vegas. She told me that many people needed to work 3 Jobs to survive there. Our country has a budget in surplus, a good cheap medicine scheme, universal health care, loans for university study, families receive $4000 from the Gov when a baby is born. After that based in income thet receive more money each month for each child. No wonder food is cheap there (America) if the workers get SH pay. Don't you think there is something obscene for a country that is suppose to be the richest nation should have such a disparity in income. I was watching on YouTube some guy had infilerated the Young Republicans and asking them why they were not doing army service. It seems they were busy getting an education. Just promise the poor and blacks a college education to get them in the army to eventually end up in Iraq. I watch Jon Stewart on the Daily Show. Its a treat to watch the Senate questioning the Attorney General and how many "I can't recalls" he responds with. The man is an idiot and he is supposed to be the First Law officer of the US.

I just reread this thread; I had skimmed it before and just now read a few of your comments Aussie.

My husband is from San Diego, Oceanside and he worked one job and survived just fine. It is very expensive in some areas of the country and I believe that people that have difficulty making ends meet should have assistance.

About your young Republican quip. Did you see my reply to you? My father is a Republican. He bled and watched his brother in arms die TWICE in Vietnam. He was a volunteer. He was a Republican then and is now. I also directed you to statistics that show that most in the military vote Republican.

People that fight and are willing to die for their country are usually incredibly patriotic. Now you can disagree with their politics or their world view, but to suggest that the men and women that fight for America are uneducated and poor as to why they enlist is a disgusting sentiment that I take issue with! Take issue with the politicians and not the men and women that are in the forces.

My one and only cousin is in Iraq right now. He spent the last few months in Hawaii, married, and has returned to serve his country again. He is not uneducated and comes from a wealthy family. His parents are Republican (radical conservative strain) and I'm not sure of his politics. Please don't paint with such a broad brush.

And about the open heart patient; she wouldn't have died. They just would have harassed the hell out of her afterwards to pay her bill. :)

I should know. I was a single parent and always received emergency medical care regardless of my ability to pay.

No doubt there are many issues with America. There are enough "real" issues without the need to use shrill rhetoric and demagoguery.

[_aussieguy55]

I watch PBS Newshour of an afternoon afterwork. Often at the end of the program they have a honour roll of soldiers killed. Many of them are so young and all that for a war based on lies. You talk about the war in Asia, that was also based on lies.Its odd how the Right demonise the left. Americans have hated the French and yet their women seem to be doing fine (Why French Women don't get Fat) Ironic the wealthiest country has a problem with health (obesiety). I have been reading Ghost Planes (redition to countries that do torture - the US doesn't) and The Greatest Story ever Told. Both reveal the lies told by your administration. I hope to God Obama or Hilary win.

[_barrelomonkeys]

I watch PBS Newshour of an afternoon afterwork. Often at the end of the program they have a honour roll of soldiers killed. Many of them are so young and all that for a war based on lies. You talk about the war in Asia, that was also based on lies.Its odd how the Right demonise the left. Americans have hated the French and yet their women seem to be doing fine (Why French Women don't get Fat) Ironic the wealthiest country has a problem with health (obesiety). I have been reading Ghost Planes (redition to countries that do torture - the US doesn't) and The Greatest Story ever Told. Both reveal the lies told by your administration. I hope to God Obama or Hilary win.

Hi Aussie guy. I watch PBS too, and C-Span, and love NPR. I'm sort of what you would call a news junkie. ;)

I didn't support going into Iraq and am pained each and every time one of those young people die for this war. I don't however blame them for being there. I hope you can distinguish between the soldiers and those that sent them there. I know I certainly do.

I’m not certain if your comments were directed at me or not... but just in case they were let me assure you that I'm not a part of the "right" and don't demonize the "left". I actually, for most of my political life, wasn't even on the right left political scale and floated somewhere else. :)

I'm not really sure what your point is about French women. One of my best friends (she was an exchange student when I was in high school) is a French woman and I love her dearly.

I don't really find it ironic that a wealthy country has problems with obesity. There are a lot of cultural factors that play into the obesity epidemic... interestingly enough many people that are lower on the economic ladder in America are the ones most likely to be obese.

I don't hope to "God" for anything but knock yourself out. :D

[_ktallamigo]

your agenda is revealed

I really have no agenda. I have my opinions - but I'm just searching for the truth - like anyone else.

[_ktallamigo]

Ray A says

Now consider alternative views about Chomsky

I happen to agree with most of what Chomsky says. Because he criticizes the powerful in America, he is obviously going to be attacked, misconstrued, and criticized. Like the accusations that he supported Pol Pot.

I don't swallow anything without question, including Windshuttle, but I think he makes some valid points.

Perhaps you believe that an angel gave some gold plates to Joseph Smith and he translated them using a peep stone.

What is "the truth" about America's foreign policy?

America's imperialistic policy and meddling in foreign nations is well-documented. Just to name a few: Cuba, the Philippines, Iran, Iraq, Greece, Italy, all of Central and South America, etc.

Perhaps you approve of those kinds of things.

Chomsky is full of utter CRAP.

I disagree.

[_Coggins7]

Oh come on Ray. America got where it did by unifying, by desimating the native American population and by wielding a big stick at the rest of the world. It's history is steeped in blood, (just as most countries are).

Actually, the Indian wars were incidental to the colonization of America. Conflict with the Amerindians, and especially with the more warlike among them, was probably inevitable, given the large cultural differences between the two peoples, as well as the pervasive warlike nature of many of these tribes (many of them got to where they were in North America through ceaseless war and conquest).

American didn't begin wielding a big stick in the world until WWI, and then in the face of the great totalitarian threats that arose in the first third of the 20th century, i.e., Socialism, National Socialism, Fascism, and Japanese totalitarian collectivism. There was no "decimation" of Amerindians by Americans. There were wars and pacification, much of which was inexcusable, but no decimation. You have been mind washed and acceptably indoctrinated by the pop media and educational system around you.

Let's not be too nostalgic about the whole thing. I don't disagree that they are influential, but they got influential on the backs of others. America might have come into the 2nd World War, but it didn't do so without making millions off the Brits in lend/lease.

Having said that, with all it's faults, I'd take America over China, Russia or the Middle East.

No, in reality (as opposed to the ideologically driven revisionism you are foisting here), America became great and influential because of the principles enshrined in the Declaration and Constitution, which are in essence a cross between the economic and political classical Liberalism of the enlightenment and long standing Judeo/Christian concepts of moral and social order.

As to lend lease, what is bringing this up supposed to prove? The U.S. loaned roughly fifty billion dollars in war materials to our allies in there fight against tyranny in exchange for land to used for American military bases in those countries (so America could more easily help those countries defeat Hitler, Mussolini, and Tojo).

And you're point is?

[_Coggins7]

Hi Coggins...

Do you agree that in order to prepare for the Coming of Christ, and to have Zion on the earth, the church members must be living the United Order?

Do you agree with the scriptures as it describes the United Order?

~dancer~

This is entirely dependent upon what one means by "United Order" and what form the United Order will take under conditions similar to those at present (as opposed to the utterly devergent conditions that existed in the Salt Lake Valley in the mid-Nineteenth Century).

I agree with the scriptures as it describes the UO in the time frame in question. I also agree with the scripture's depiction of life under the Mosaic law. We do not live that law now, and I'm not at all sure the UO that is understood to be preparatory to the Second Coming will look like the one practiced under the conditions the early Saints faced. The principles are the same, yes, but the particular application may be very different.

[_ktallamigo]

Chomsky has compared America to Nazi Germany

There are many critics out there who compare the current situation in America to pre-wwII Germany, and they make some valid points. Many believe America is becoming increasingly fascist, not just Chomsky. I disagree, however, because we still have elections and courts. Bush hasn't destroyed all of the Bill of Rights -- yet.

This is an interesting comparison of America under Bush to fascist regimes.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm