Mormon mindset....

[_Mister Scratch]

According to the Church owned Bonneville International website, Bonneville owns the following in the Salt Lake City market:

KSL TV
KSL Radio

Already noted.

KSFI Radio
KRSP Radio
KUTR Radio

I admit that I did not know that the Church owns a corporation that, in addition to KSL-Radio and KSL-TV and among other stations outside of Utah, owns a “Soft Hits with Less Talk” FM Adult Contemporary station, a "Classic Hits" FM heritage rock station that plays “The Music You Grew Up With,” and an AM station that plays contemporary inspirational music throughout the week for those reflective moods and contemplative moments.

I don't know how many radio stations broadcast in the Salt Lake City market. One purportedly complete list totalling (by my count) 108 stations occurs here:

http://www.ontheradio.net/metro/Salt_Lake_City_UT.aspx

I note that it includes affiliates of networks, talk radio channels, "Christian" stations, public stations, and etc., that are not owned, so far as I can see, by any company owned by the Church -- which owns somewhat less than 4% of the radio stations identified as being in the Salt Lake City market.

Oh... Oh my! I'm filled with implacable dread at reading this! It is remarkably detailed! Given your track record, over some twenty years or so, of confronting LDS critics, a line has been crossed in my mind! I...I'm afraid that you might do something, Prof. P.! Oh no! Shall I call these radio stations, and warn them about you??? Oh, dear me! I'm SO AFRAID! Somebody fetch me my tinfoil helmet, so that I might glean a small modicum of comfort!

The SL Tribune has taken a much softer approach with the LDS church since the purchase by Dean Singleton who, as I understand it, is sympathetic in some respects to the church.

I've heard that. I don't know whether or not it's true. The Tribune was launched as, essentially, the voice of the non-Mormon community in Utah, and it has long been antagonistic to the Church. It's probably not a bad thing if the paper has gotten beyond obituaries like "The only decent thing Brigham Young ever did was to die."

It *is* a bad thing, though, if the only powerful voice for dissent in Utah is silenced by the Church.

[_harmony]

You alleged that that Church controls the flow of information in Utah. It doesn't save your false claim in any way for you to point out that both the Deseret Morning News and the Salt Lake Tribune have contracted their printing and business functions -- but not their editorial functions -- out to a third company that doesn't appear to be owned by the Church.

Actually, if you read the fine print, the Trib's publishing company is owned by the church, because the publishing company is owned by Deseret News (and the Trib) and DN is owned by the church. Kinda like you're owned by the church, too, only a little cleaner.

Let me try to make it a little clearer:

1. the Deseret Morning News is owned by Deseret News Publishing Company, which is owned by Deseret Management, which is a for-profit business holding company of the LDS church.

2. the newspapers are both published by Newpaper Agency Corp, which the Deseret News owns with the Trib.

3. Thus, half of NAC is owned by Deseret Management, which, in case you forgot, is a for-profit business holding company owned by the LDS church.

See?

My mistake was in thinking NAC = the Trib. I stand corrected on that.

Actually, we're talking about the ownership, not the reporters.

You made a false statement about ownership in order to support your false position regarding alleged Church control of the news. I revealed your statement about ownership to be false, and then supplied another fact that further weakens your claim about alleged Church control of the news.

Actually, I made a statement which was about half wrong, based on my faulty memory, but still... I got it half right. The church owns at least half of the publishing company that publishes both newspapers. Were they to get snarky, they could muck up the Trib considerably.

However, that does not address the rest of the media the church owns, which does have the largest market share in Utah: KSL and KSL TV.

This dog don't hunt, Harmony.

It's a duck, not a dog. The church controls the Deseret News, the publisher that publishes the Trib, KSL and assorted other radio stations, KSL TV, BYU radio and TV. That's a hefty market share, for one entity in one state.

Why you won't admit that is what intrigues me. Why can't you just admit the church controls the media in Utah by virtue of sheer volume, when it's so obvious it does?

[_Daniel Peterson]

Why can't you just admit the church controls the media in Utah by virtue of sheer volume, when it's so obvious it does?

Because it's obvious that it doesn't.

Even if the Church directly controlled editorial decisions at the Deseret Morning News, which it doesn't, that would represent editorial control of only the second-ranked daily newspaper in the Salt Lake City market, to say nothing of the non-Church-owned newspapers in Cedar City, St. George, Provo, Logan, Ogden, and etc. By its own description, the Newspaper Agency Corporation does not make editorial decisions, and, so, exercises no editorial control.

Salt Lake City is a two-newspaper town. Los Angeles, by contrast, although it is several times larger, is a one-newspaper town. It has been dominated by the Los Angeles Times since its only serious competitor, the Herald Examiner (for which I was once a paperboy), folded in 1989. If you want to criticize monopolistic control of the media, you should be pointing at the Tribune Corporation and at Los Angeles, not at Salt Lake City and the Church.

Even if the Church directly controlled editorial and news decisions at KSL-TV and KSL-Radio and a very small group of soft rock and easy listening FM stations -- a proposition for which no evidence has been provided here -- that would still leave approximately 100+ radio stations and several television stations in the Salt Lake market that the Church didn't control.

Let's assume that KSL-Radio had a listening audience fifty times larger than its average competitor (which is absurdly untrue). That would still give it somewhat less than 33% of the Salt Lake City audience.

Why can't you just admit that the Church doesn't control the media in Utah, when it's so obvious that it doesn't?

[_Jason Bourne]

Why can't you just admit the church controls the media in Utah by virtue of sheer volume, when it's so obvious it does?

Because it's obvious that it doesn't.

Even if the Church directly controlled editorial decisions at the Deseret Morning News, which it doesn't, that would represent editorial control of only the second-ranked daily newspaper in the Salt Lake City market, to say nothing of the non-Church-owned newspapers in Cedar City, St. George, Provo, Logan, Ogden, and etc. By its own description, the Newspaper Agency Corporation does not make editorial decisions, and, so, exercises no editorial control.

Salt Lake City is a two-newspaper town. Los Angeles, by contrast, although it is several times larger, is a one-newspaper town. It has been dominated by the Los Angeles Times since its only serious competitor, the Herald Examiner (for which I was once a paperboy), folded in 1989. If you want to criticize monopolistic control of the media, you should be pointing at the Tribune Corporation and at Los Angeles, not at Salt Lake City and the Church.

Even if the Church directly controlled editorial and news decisions at KSL-TV and KSL-Radio and a very small group of soft rock and easy listening FM stations -- a proposition for which no evidence has been provided here -- that would still leave approximately 100+ radio stations and several television stations in the Salt Lake market that the Church didn't control.

Let's assume that KSL-Radio had a listening audience fifty times larger than its average competitor (which is absurdly untrue). That would still give it somewhat less than 33% of the Salt Lake City audience.

Why can't you just admit that the Church doesn't control the media in Utah, when it's so obvious that it doesn't?

Dr. Peterson is most certainly correct on this point. The Church hardly controls the media market in Utah. One only need visit, read the papers that are available, watch TV and listen to the various radio stations and one can quickly determine that there is much in the media that is not favorably to the LDS Church. Growing up in Utah my parents always had the then one talk radio station on-K Talk- and it was anything but pro LDS.

[_moksha]

The Salt Lake Weekly is independent of the Church. They are also the paper that has investigated stories that the other news outlets would not touch, like the Bonneville Pacific scandal involving SLC Mayor DeeDee Corradini and the Salt Lake Olympic Bribery Scandal. Both stories resulted in federal investigations and trials. Pick one up for free whenever you are in Salt Lake City.

[_Ray A]

And here I was thinking Murdoch controlled the media in the US.

[_harmony]

Why can't you just admit the church controls the media in Utah by virtue of sheer volume, when it's so obvious it does?

Because it's obvious that it doesn't.

Perhaps we're talking past each other, because I'm not talking about editorial influence or Los Angelos or Peggy Fletcher Stack. I"ll try one more time:

A single entity owns the #1 and #2 radio stations, the #1 television station, the 2nd largest newspaper, the publishing company of the largest newspaper, and a number of other radio and tv stations in the state. There may be several other media groups that own bits and pieces of media here and there throughout the state, but no other single entity comes close to owning that kind of mega multi faceted media.

And that single entity is the LDS church.

That there are several other smaller newspapers, owned by a variety of groups, does not concern me. That there are hundreds of other radio stations, owned by a variety of groups, does not concern me. That there are other television stations, owned by a variety of groups, does not concern me, because no other single entity owns #1 and #2 in all of those media outlets. The church controls the lion's share of the media in three different media outlets: radio, television, and newspapers. And that is all I said. I never said they controlled or influenced editorial content, job security, or newstory content. I simply said: the church owns the lion's share of the media in Utah. And nothing you've said so far refutes that. Dragging up red herrings from Cedar City, Los Angelos, or anywhere else does not negate my original point (not that you're ever going to admit it).

[_Nephi]

Why can't you just admit the church controls the media in Utah by virtue of sheer volume, when it's so obvious it does?

Because it's obvious that it doesn't.

I simply said: the church owns the lion's share of the media in Utah. And nothing you've said so far refutes that. Dragging up red herrings from Cedar City, Los Angelos, or anywhere else does not negate my original point (not that you're ever going to admit it).

Look, I am probably going to regret getting in the middle of this, but in your first post, you claimed:

And yes, the church owns both the DN and the Trib. They control most of the news in UT, through KSL radio and tv, the DN, and the Trib.

However, I am going to help you out a bit here. First off, you have proven your point that the church owns most of the most popular forms of media in Utah. However, you did state in your first post that they "control" most of the news in UT, which is very different from "owning" as you ascertain in your original post. However, generally, a company which is owned by an entity or another group will mold themselves to the consensus or desires of the owner.

There is a common misconception in the US that since the press is free, they are at will to write what they want about whomever they want, but this is not true. Media will tend NOT to write against its owners, and will also attempt to write in such a way that will not offend their owners. You are right that the articles that come from these media stations and publishers tends to be "censored" or changed in such a way as to make the news "less offensive" or even remove articles all together that might be deemed inappropriate.

However, Daniel is also correct that the Church does not directly censor the articles or editorials that come from these papers, and it would be stupid to do so. The media establishments self censor without intervention from the church. I would assume they do this both as a loyalty towards their owners and as a courtesy to their viewers/listeners.

Each media outlet has a nitch, and they are not concerned with reporting the news as it happens, or as unbiased as possible, but (instead) in such a way that their income producing viewers and listeners continue to support their businesses. It would be very dumb for Fox News to all of a sudden become very liberal in their news biasness, for their news (very conservative compared to other mass media network outlets) is highly conservative, and is geared towards such a crowd. So, since a large part of the UT population is of the Mormon faith, chances are the media they watch is going to be biased towards the ideals and principles of that faith as well.

[_harmony]

Why can't you just admit the church controls the media in Utah by virtue of sheer volume, when it's so obvious it does?

Because it's obvious that it doesn't.

I simply said: the church owns the lion's share of the media in Utah. And nothing you've said so far refutes that. Dragging up red herrings from Cedar City, Los Angelos, or anywhere else does not negate my original point (not that you're ever going to admit it).

Look, I am probably going to regret getting in the middle of this, but in your first post, you claimed:

And yes, the church owns both the DN and the Trib. They control most of the news in UT, through KSL radio and tv, the DN, and the Trib.

Ah, I see what Daniel's problem is, then. Poor choice of words on my part. Thank you for pointing that out. I was focusing on the "own" and he was focusing on the "control". I couldn't figure out why he was all bent out of shape about editorial content, when I was talking about ownership!

And the rest of your post is also correct, in that I think the church-owned Utah media management and employees will self-censor in order to remain employed. Any employee of the church must do so on a regular basis. We've all see what happens to church employees who freely express their opinions (I'm thinking of Jeff Nelson (? I'm not sure if that's the name... math teacher with the letter to the editor critical of the church) and assorted other professors who are no longer employed at BYU thanks to their lack of self-censorship). Obviously employees of the Deseret News don't have to pass a TRI interview, but the church is unlikely to employ the Devil's spawn (vocal anti-Mormon critic) either (unless it's good for ratings).

However, I think additionally, since the members know that the Bonneville International empire is owned by the church, the majority of them would trust it moreso than they would a station/newspaper that is owned by someone else with whom they are not familiar. And it explains the complaint from the lady in the DN in the OP, and the response that resulted in the newspaper censoring the "Oh my God!" comment. That comment wouldn't have raised an eyebrow outside of Utah.

It's only a few of us mission-field living quasi-heathens that tend to look suspiciously on anything remotely connected with the church.b

[_Jason Bourne]

Why can't you just admit the church controls the media in Utah by virtue of sheer volume, when it's so obvious it does?

Because it's obvious that it doesn't.

Perhaps we're talking past each other, because I'm not talking about editorial influence or Los Angelos or Peggy Fletcher Stack. I"ll try one more time:

A single entity owns the #1 and #2 radio stations, the #1 television station, the 2nd largest newspaper, the publishing company of the largest newspaper, and a number of other radio and tv stations in the state. There may be several other media groups that own bits and pieces of media here and there throughout the state, but no other single entity comes close to owning that kind of mega multi faceted media.

And that single entity is the LDS church.

That there are several other smaller newspapers, owned by a variety of groups, does not concern me. That there are hundreds of other radio stations, owned by a variety of groups, does not concern me. That there are other television stations, owned by a variety of groups, does not concern me, because no other single entity owns #1 and #2 in all of those media outlets. The church controls the lion's share of the media in three different media outlets: radio, television, and newspapers. And that is all I said. I never said they controlled or influenced editorial content, job security, or newstory content. I simply said: the church owns the lion's share of the media in Utah. And nothing you've said so far refutes that. Dragging up red herrings from Cedar City, Los Angelos, or anywhere else does not negate my original point (not that you're ever going to admit it).

Lion's share means nothing. Be more specific.