Only one female speaker at General Conference this weekend

[_Physics Guy]

See, that picture right there is a crying example of how fake news and bogus spin proliferate on the internet and make everything bad.

They take a perfectly normal picture and slap on a sensationalistic headline in the name of clickbait. I mean, just ask yourself: if this were labelled honestly, as just another example of a watermelon drowning a cat, would I even care?

[_Lemmie]

You are nitpicking and playing with words. The fact remains that Jesus makes a clear distinction between the Twelve Apostles and the remainder of his disciples. How precisely you want to define that distinction is beside the point.

Eh, not really. Have you actually read the Gospel of Mark? The twelve disciples are constantly screwing up and getting things wrong only to be upstaged by women, invalids, and outsiders. It's one of the major narrative themes of the Gospel of Mark that anyone can be exactly what the Twelve were.

The other synoptic Gospels likely came later and softened the "stupid disciples" narrative a bit.

MsJack, this thread has been like a mini-class in Women in the New Testament, thank you! I've enjoyed it immensely, in spite of the Red Creep. Can you take your fee in emojis?

(no way, Physics Guy. The watermelon and the cat are communicating telepathically. It's a conspiracy. )

[_Lemmie]

You are just being extremely illogical and irrational. I see no point in continuing with this discussion.

Yeah ... but there's women for you!

I can quite see why Vice-President Pence doesn't want to be left alone with one. All those words and stuff. it messes with a guy's brain, know what I mean!

That's what happens when you let women get educated...

[_Xenophon]

MsJack, this thread has been like a mini-class in Women in the New Testament, thank you! I've enjoyed it immensely, in spite of the Red Creep. Can you take your fee in emojis?

(no way, Physics Guy. The watermelon and the cat are communicating telepathically. It's a conspiracy. )

If you have the time, MsJack's blog is immensely educational and entertaining. She is currently on part 2 of a 4 part look at the gender of God as related by the scriptures. I have found it fascinating.

http://www.weighted-glory.com/

Shout-out to Chap as well for his valuable contributions to the thread.

[_Lemmie]

MsJack, this thread has been like a mini-class in Women in the New Testament, thank you! I've enjoyed it immensely, in spite of the Red Creep. Can you take your fee in emojis?

(no way, Physics Guy. The watermelon and the cat are communicating telepathically. It's a conspiracy. )

If you have the time, MsJack's blog is immensely educational and entertaining. She is currently on part 2 of a 4 part look at the gender of God as related by the scriptures. I have found it fascinating.

http://www.weighted-glory.com/

Shout-out to Chap as well for his valuable contributions to the thread.

I had decided to check out her blog while reading this thread, but thanks for the topics information, that just makes it all the more inviting.

And agreed, Chap's knowledge is pretty impressive, I didn't mean to leave him out--thanks, Chap!

[_SteelHead]

Jack kicks Zernius's but. He calls name and flees.

Typical of him.

[_MsJack]

MsJack, this thread has been like a mini-class in Women in the New Testament, thank you! I've enjoyed it immensely, in spite of the Red Creep. Can you take your fee in emojis?

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it. If you like the subject, Junia: The First Woman Apostle by Eldon Jay Epp really is a good read. He takes all of the arguments against Junia, holds them upside-down, and shakes them for their lunch money. It never ceases to amaze me how many anti-Junia types try to write articles about this when they've clearly never read Epp.

Dan Peterson fell into this trap a few years ago; it was pretty apparent in his article that he had only read the evangelical complementarian sources and not the egalitarian responses (and certainly not Epp, which is the book on the subject). I responded on his blog, where someone tried to claim that I "proof-text" for women's ordination using the passage. The post has since been deleted, but the comments live on.

If you have the time, MsJack's blog is immensely educational and entertaining. She is currently on part 2 of a 4 part look at the gender of God as related by the scriptures. I have found it fascinating.

I'm glad you're enjoying it, that will motivate me to post part 3. The whole thing is actually "done" since I'm adapting it from a paper, I just have to format it in HTML. I keep getting side-tracked by other writing projects.

[_Maksutov]

You are just being extremely illogical and irrational. I see no point in continuing with this discussion.

MsJack, you're all right.

[_Gray Ghost]

The main one is that the linguistic construct does not necessitate that he/she be an Apostle

As I said earlier, "esteemed by the apostles" is technically grammatically possible, but extremely unlikely. It is unattested in the history of translation for this passage until very late and it is rare for ἐπίσημοι ἐν (+dative) in antiquity. In fact, the entire history of trying to give Junia a penis works against the argument that this passage could just as easily mean a non-apostle or a different kind of apostle, because if that were the case, why did so many later translators and commentators settle instead on the unlikely proposition of insisting an obvious female name was male? Why didn't they just say, "Huh, this could mean 'esteemed by the apostles' or Paul could mean a different kind of apostle, so that must be it" instead of "this name that is a woman's name must be a man's name because women can't be apostles"?

Jesus is called an apostle in the New Testament (Heb. 3:1), but obviously not in the same sense. Barnabas is called an Apostle (Acts 14:14), but not in the same sense.

Apostle was an authoritative calling with a special witness to the resurrection (1 Cor. 9:1). Jesus (Heb 3:1) and Paul (also mentioned in Acts 14:14) certainly fit that bill. What makes you think Barnabas hadn't been made an apostle by Acts 14? "Apostle/Apostles" is overwhelmingly used for the group that includes Peter and Paul in Acts.

Your insistence that Junia is an Apostle is biblically​ and linguistically ridiculous and silly in the extreme.

It wasn't biblically or linguistically ridiculous or silly for John Chrysostom or Theodoret of Cyrrhus. You really think the ten minutes you spent Googling this yesterday to try and support your preconceived notions of women and apostleship makes you more of an expert than them?

The real issue here is that you are in error because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God. (Mt 22:29)

Just stopping by to say, oh snap!

[Guest]

Jack kicks Zernius's but. He calls name and flees.

Typical of him.

I think that Jack is suffering from contradictions syndrome. She has to contradict everything that everybody says just for the sake of contradicting. If you say, “What a beautiful sunny day it is today!” she will insist that it is raining, and will write you a 20 page essay to prove to you that it is raining when in fact the sun is shining. And if you decide that her 20 page essay is not worth reading let alone replying to, she will declare herself the winner by default! Nothing clever about that though.