Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

[_Jersey Girl]

1. & 2. I do not believe God made her to be gay, on purpose or accidentally or in any other way.
Although Ether 12:27 could play a part.

27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

Let's take your above answer and the portion of scripture that you offered as possible support and just go with it if you don't mind.

1. Based on your above, would you say that God created the child who is born with cerebral palsy?

2. Would that fit with Ether 12:27 in terms of a weakness?

I appreciate your willingness to engage. I assure you that I am not here to destroy your church or your religious beliefs. I am a child advocate who wants to know how your religious belief interacts with the situation involving the girl who chose to speak at F&T meeting.

And let's just see how this goes...

[_Jersey Girl]

I also want to reiterate that I vehemently disagree with the church's new policy regarding children of gay parents. Just keeping myself intellectually honest and accountable here. This is separate and apart from the issue regarding the girl in question.

[_Kishkumen]

Her testimony was a beautiful read in any case. It took a lot of courage for her to make this statement. I can't imagine what it would feel like to be raised in a religious organization that made a point of rejecting such a fundamental part of your personal identity. It takes guts to own that identity with personal conviction in public, no less.

I understand why this makes some people uneasy, and it's true that she is young, but I knew I was attracted to girls at the age of four. She can't know she is attracted to them at the age of twelve? Really?

[_Shulem]

27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

It is a solemn mockery when Mormons use this verse to justify the existence and purpose for homosexuality as some kind of trial put on them from God. Being gay is NOT a weakness. It is a natural order in the genetic structuring of a human being. Sexual orientation is natural whether gay or straight based on the genetic makeup of the person acting on it.

Mormons who think being gay is a weak disorder that somehow needs to be discontinued and shunned are in the gull of bitterness and the bonds of iniquity. I rebuke them for the self-righteous fools they are.

[_JLHPROF]

1. & 2. I do not believe God made her to be gay, on purpose or accidentally or in any other way.
Although Ether 12:27 could play a part.

27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

Let's take your above answer and the portion of scripture that you offered as possible support and just go with it if you don't mind.

1. Based on your above, would you say that God created the child who is born with cerebral palsy?

2. Would that fit with Ether 12:27 in terms of a weakness?

I appreciate your willingness to engage. I assure you that I am not here to destroy your church or your religious beliefs. I am a child advocate who wants to know how your religious belief interacts with the situation involving the girl who chose to speak at F&T meeting.

And let's just see how this goes...

I believe that God created the child that has cerebral palsy. I am not convinced that God created the child to have cerebral palsy but that that would be simply a result of the fallen world.
That would fall under John 9:13

1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

And I would not equate that in any way with Ether 12:27. An illness is not the kind of weakness that is referred to there.
I think that we all have mortal weaknesses born within us. That doesn't mean God created the weakness, only that he allowed it. In much the same way as the Fall.

[_Jersey Girl]

I understand why this makes some people uneasy, and it's true that she is young, but I knew I was attracted to girls at the age of four. She can't know she is attracted to them at the age of twelve? Really?

Listen, I'm no expert on the topic but I have taught upwards of a thousand young children ages 3-5 and I can tell you without question that children naturally know and act on their gender identity and sexual orientation in that stage of development in their authentic play.

And I'm not talking about the little boys who wear high heels or nurse the doll babies, or the girls who hang out at the woodworking bench using real shop tools.

[_Jersey Girl]

I believe that God created the child that has cerebral palsy. I am not convinced that God created the child to have cerebral palsy but that that would be simply a result of the fallen world.
That would fall under John 9:13

1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Do you believe that we are all created with physiological, neurological, and psychological differences as a result of a fallen world? Or just some of us?

And I would not equate that in any way with Ether 12:27. An illness is not the kind of weakness that is referred to there.

I think that we all have mortal weaknesses born within us. That doesn't mean God created the weakness, only that he allowed it. In much the same way as the Fall.

If God allows us to be born with weaknesses (I'm thinking you're referring to what I'd call sinful nature) would you say that people who are born gay would fall into the same category as having a weakness that is manifested in their sexual interactions with each other?

[_Shulem]

1. Based on your above, would you say that God created the child who is born with cerebral palsy?

2. Would that fit with Ether 12:27 in terms of a weakness?

I think one could reasonably apply the Ether 12:27 doctrine to someone like Aaron, who was supposedly a mighty speaker but perhaps wasn't so early on. It becomes a matter of development through effort and learned skill. In time, a weak speaker can become a strong speaker but only after a lot of work.

But sexual orientation or cerebral palsy could hardly be applied to the Ether doctrine because they are not weaknesses that need to be improved upon, per se, they are genetic conditions in which a person lives their life the best they can. A weak lesbian doesn't become a strong lesbian any more than a weak palsy becomes a strong palsy.

Mormons are so screwed up. Did you know that?

[_Jersey Girl]

1. Based on your above, would you say that God created the child who is born with cerebral palsy?

2. Would that fit with Ether 12:27 in terms of a weakness?

I think one could reasonably apply the Ether 12:27 doctrine to someone like Aaron, who was supposedly a mighty speaker but perhaps wasn't so early on. It becomes a matter of development through effort and learned skill. In time, a weak speaker can become a strong speaker but only after a lot of work.

But sexual orientation or cerebral palsy could hardly be applied to the Ether doctrine because they are not weaknesses that need to be improved upon, per se, they are genetic conditions in which a person lives their life the best they can. A weak lesbian doesn't become a strong lesbian any more than a weak palsy becomes a strong palsy.

Mormons are so screwed up. Did you know that?

Paul I'm not ignoring you. I'm just concentrating on my current exchanges with JLHPROF . So I guess I really am ignoring you.

I'm sorry. I do care what you think about this I just don't have time at the moment to try to do justice to two different posters on this topic.

[_JLHPROF]

Mormons are so screwed up. Did you know that?

And this is why I am not responding to you.
Good faith discussion works both ways.