BYU faculty and the Book of Mormon

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Do we have unique & original signatures for each of the witnesses attesting they saw or held the plates? I'm fairly certain those signatures don't exist.

- Doc

[Guest]

If there were real plates, in which the Book of Mormon represents some of it's story, then there was a translation. If Joseph did not use the plates then Joseph was not the translator unless God taught him the reformed Egyptian and put that on his rock for Joseph to translate. If Joseph was taught reformed Egyptian then why not use the plates? Since Joseph didn't, the plates were not essential to any translation. Catalyst is just stupid because Joseph claimed to have Gods and angels visiting him, and why do a select few around him need to see real plates when the rest are expected to believe without?

[Guest]

So, if Smith claimed that God revealed to him the Book of Mormon without ever claiming to have the plates, you read the book, you took Moroni’s test, and you receive the same spiritual witness, you’d be likely to say “nawwww. If he’d only claimed to have plates?”

But Joseph did claim plates and an angel. We have to go with that. The book came as a result.

I get it though. You would like to place the cart before the horse, or better yet...get rid of the horse and let the cart stand alone. But that's all it would do...stand there, it wouldn't go anywhere.

The Book of Mormon wouldn't go anywhere if it didn't originate from the artifact that it purports to be the translation of. At least that's my take on it. The plates place the Book of Mormon in the real world...not an imaginary world of Joseph's creation.

As I said earlier...why in the heck did Joseph go to all the trouble of creating and carrying out...with a great degree of sacrifice and discomfort...the plates narrative? Couldn't he have done just as well and done exactly what you're suggesting...just come up with the book out of whole cloth?

Regards,
MG

[_fetchface]

As I said earlier...why in the heck did Joseph go to all the trouble of creating and carrying out...with a great degree of sacrifice and discomfort...the plates narrative? Couldn't he have done just as well and done exactly what you're suggesting...just come up with the book out of whole cloth?

Who knows, why did James Strang do the same thing?

[_mentalgymnast]

As I said earlier...why in the heck did Joseph go to all the trouble of creating and carrying out...with a great degree of sacrifice and discomfort...the plates narrative? Couldn't he have done just as well and done exactly what you're suggesting...just come up with the book out of whole cloth?

Who knows, why did James Strang do the same thing?

Copycat.

Minus the angelic witness.

Regards,
MG

[_Lemmie]

As I said earlier...why in the heck did Joseph go to all the trouble of creating and carrying out...with a great degree of sacrifice and discomfort...the plates narrative? Couldn't he have done just as well and done exactly what you're suggesting...just come up with the book out of whole cloth?

Who knows, why did James Strang do the same thing?

And Swedenborg told stories of speaking to angels almost a 100 years earlier. I always felt like Joseph Smith copied his style quite a bit in coming up with his stories.

[_Maksutov]

And Swedenborg told stories of speaking to angels almost a 100 years earlier. I always felt like Joseph Smith copied his style quite a bit in coming up with his stories.

Swedenborg would sometimes have his visions in broad daylight, even with others in attendance who saw nothing. Sound familiar? Combine stories of Swedenborg and John Dee with your forefathers' folk magic, some racist speculation and some creative Christianity and...voila!

[_Lemmie]

And Swedenborg told stories of speaking to angels almost a 100 years earlier. I always felt like Joseph Smith copied his style quite a bit in coming up with his stories.

Swedenborg would sometimes have his visions in broad daylight, even with others in attendance who saw nothing. Sound familiar? Combine stories of Swedenborg and John Dee with your forefathers' folk magic, some racist speculation and some creative Christianity and...voila!

Thank you for weighing in Maks, I knew you would have the juicy details!

[_sunstoned]

Copycat.

Minus the angelic witness.

Regards,
MG

James Strang had witnesses to his plates. His story was good enough to convince every Book of Mormon witness except Oliver C. to join him. In fact, most of Joseph Smith's family, including Emma joined and sustained Strang. I guess people were pretty gullible back then.

[_mentalgymnast]

Copycat.

Minus the angelic witness.

Regards,
MG

James Strang had witnesses to his plates. His story was good enough to convince every Book of Mormon witness except Oliver C. to join him. In fact, most of Joseph Smith's family, including Emma joined and sustained Strang. I guess people were pretty gullible back then.

Yes, he did have witnesses. I'll hand you that. But no claim to an angel and/or divine intervention of any sort...at least from what I can remember at the time I looked at the Strang movement somewhat in depth.

Regards,
MG