Member of local Bishopric jailed on sex abuse charges

[_candygal]

What is being lost in this discussion is an inherent flaw built into Mormon Culture. Mormon culture places so much pressure on individuals within the culture to attain perfection, project that image among fellow believers and attain priesthood advancement and achieve status within the culture. Mormonism is a status cult wherein members worship leaders and those that possess authority within the church. This creates a system where those in positions of authority must live up to the unattainable expectations of perfection within this society, one that demands perfection of imperfect men. But because humans are not perfect it also creates a system where many of these men must lie and falsely project a perfection that they do not have. The entire system is built on lies and having to lie to maintain the impossible expectations of perfection. Obviously this councilor is a perfect example of this phenomenon and how it has functions within the Mormon culture.

While many of these men called to these positions of authority over their fellow ward members are able to survive within this false environment and the impossible expectations, once in a while the culture will produce one of these very flawed men, who has worked their way up through the system undetected through their use of lies. And despite being subjected to multiple temple worthiness interviews, where the Mormon claim of holding the special magical powers of inspiration, revelation and discernment should be a failsafe…these men, these liars still slip through undetected by the very men claiming to hold this special magical power… having failed to ever uncover the lies of these men. In other words despite holding this magical power of discernment, evil men and institutional liars are still called into positions of authority where they can hide ever deeper behind their callings of authority within the system undetected by both man and the Mormon god. Claims of holding these special powers is a just the thing these lairs need to ply their trade on unsuspecting members of the church who believe in this rubbish.

And before all the lies...those powers that be have the audacity to say...your name came up and we prayed about it. God has chosen you.

[_lemuel]

Judas was called by God. Still, not all callings are made with input from Heaven.

[_Choyo Chagas]

Judas was called by God. Still, not all callings are made with input from Heaven.

there was matthew the publican - a tax collector for the romans - questionable calling ?
another one was judas - I think the only one disciple older than Jesus, and the only one who wasn't chosen but joined freely

and he was the device of salvation:
"Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him.
For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor.
He then having received the sop went immediately out: and it was night.
Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him."

traitor ?
or faithful servant who received the order "that thou doest, do quickly" ?
would Jesus denounce himself without judas' help ?



to the op:
in the chapels, there is a window on every door of every room.
except of the bishop's / president's room.
is this a standard or a happenstance in the three case i checked?

moinmoin may help us...

[_Yahoo Bot]

Some points in response to opening post.

Many religious faiths require one-on-one confession, even with minors. The priest-penitential confession is abrogated when more are involved and most states would not shield the confession if, for example, a parent or friend was present in an interview. So, true, one can say that "my child won't be subjected to one-on-one interviews with the [bishop, rabbi, priest, church elder, pastor]" but then there won't be the opportunity for essential confession required for salvation in many faiths.

Schools and youth organizations often have one-on-one interactions between child and adult -- scoutmasters, merit badge counselors, teachers, school counselors, sports coaches. The problem with some of those professions is that child molesters are drawn to them. Virtually any avocation or profession involving an adult working with youth gives rise to this kind of risk. During the OJ Simpson trial, LAPD's chief public relations spokesman was a deputy chief and highest ranking gay police officer. A greatly admired individual. He was active in the LAPD's ride-along BSA Explorer program, but then got caught having sex with some of his ride-along boys. So, even police officers working with youth pose problems.

When I was an 8th grader, our school received funding to build a dark room. Two of my friends were enlisted by a very popular married science teacher to set it up. That meant a lot of after-school time in the darkroom. My buddies would report to me repeated attempted assaults by the science teacher (more like, aggressive attempts to get into the kids pants), but they didn't report it to the parents or the police, Instead, they banded together to make sure they were never alone in the dark room. We'd take to openly mocking the guy in class. Weird times, when I think back on it.

The news story does not say that this perp did these things in a church setting.

[_Chap]

What point is Yahoo Bot trying to make, do you think?

Many religious faiths require one-on-one confession, even with minors.

Really? How many, do you think, apart from Roman Catholicism? And even in Roman Catholicism, the number of people who feel obliged to go to confession is much smaller than it once was.

In how many of those faiths does confession typically rake place in a closed room where neither the person confessing nor the person administering the rite are visible from the outside, and where the person administering the rite can touch the person confessing if they wish to?

In how many of those rites is the person administering the rite a largely untrained non-professional person?

[_Sanctorian]

Yahoo,

The point shouldn’t be “these things happen in lots of scenarios”. The point should be “what can we do to make it harder for these things to happen to protect potential victims in the future”?

My kids are taught they should never be alone with any adult in any setting. My daughter was stopping by a male teachers classroom after school because he was offering her treats. We found out, reported it to the school and the teacher was fired. Why? Because the teacher was in violation school policy and the school took preventive measures to protect Kids.

People might think that was a harsh punishment by the school. However, the school is setting a standard to let the potential criminals know it’s going to be very difficult to get their perv on. The church can also change its standards and practices to make it less likely to happen thus protecting more kids. That should be a goal we all rally around.

[_Uncle Ed]

Why can't interviews be conducted with open doors? Talking low at the opposite end of a room with an open door can accomplish the "needed" privacy, without putting the minor at risk. Interviews would only be conducted in a setting where other people are in the building, passing by frequently, perhaps even sitting outside the room looking through the open door. What's the problem with that?

Times are different than when I was raising kids. I would not allow a totally sequestered interview of one of my kids these days. I wonder how to broach this subject with my children, vis-a-vis my grandchildren as they start into their teens. That's now, actually, since my oldest grandchild is thirteen. Hmmm...

[_Sanctorian]

Another point of discussions most members seem to be turning a blind eye to, Mormon youth interviews are scheduled grooming opportunities. My understanding of other religions involve confessionals which are voluntary events. If we want to argue confessions are good for people (debatable), at least make a truly voluntary event. Scheduling twice yearly interviews and then having the bishopric ask prying personal sexual questions in an attempt to get the youth to spill the beans is not a confessional.

We should call it what it is, an exploratory abusive invasion of someone’s privacy at the hands of amateur volunteers, some of whom are predatory.

[_Yahoo Bot]

What point is Yahoo Bot trying to make, do you think?

My point is self-evident.

Several faiths require one-on-one confession. I know because there is substantial legal development about what constitutes a confession and what happens when more than two people are involved. A well-known legal case in California concerned a confession made by a gay fellow (and counseling session) to an Evangelical pastor of one of the largest churches in Los Angeles. He went out and committed suicide after his session.

if you argue against one-on-one confessionals you're arguing against a basic and critical rite and you seem to see no problem denying such to a minor. Seems rather hypocritical given your criticism of the Mormons denying baptism to children of polygamous and gay-married households.

You condemn the fact that the confession is taken by a lay person rather than a professional minister. Well, I think that in California at least, all reported decisions involving priests or pastors molesting children involve professional ministers.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I think Yahoo Bot and his friends fought off a very determined predator who gained its power through fear.



- Doc