The 2024 Sampson Avard Golden Scepter Award

[Markk]

Jack Welch’s biography notes that he was a contributing scholar on The Joseph Smith Papers project. Was Peterson not invited to that party?

Not that I know of, as with Gee, and if I remember correctly Gee had a fit and talked smack about the JSP's, and was then called to the COB, upper floors, and verbally spanked by a GA. RFM told the story on one of his podcasts, I think the one I linked above.

Bushman and even Brian Hauglid, who denounced Gee's and Kerry Muhlestein's scholarship as "abhorrent," was a editor on one of the volumes that show how the church feels about the old FARM's mopologists.

[consiglieri]

It's truly miraculous that Mormon wasted so much gold plate space by writing everything twice just so John Welch could discover the chiasmus.

Brilliant!!!

[consiglieri]

I remember chatting with Jack on the phone around seven-years ago and asking what he thought of how his FARMS organization had turned out.

He chuckled good-naturedly that there was precious little remaining of what he had envisioned FARMS to be.

Then came Scripture Central…

[Doctor Steuss]

It's truly miraculous that Mormon wasted so much gold plate space by writing everything twice** just so John Welch could discover the chiasmus.

**At least twice.

The abridged plates, used after the loss of the 116 pages, had Chiastic structures. The large plates potentially contained the Nephite equivalent of "John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt."

[Doctor Scratch]

I remember chatting with Jack on the phone around seven-years ago and asking what he thought of how his FARMS organization had turned out.

He chuckled good-naturedly that there was precious little remaining of what he had envisioned FARMS to be.

Then came Scripture Central…

Wow, Consig: that is absolutely devastating. At first glance, I could imagine someone seeing that remark and assuming that Welch was referring specifically to the post-FARMS Maxwell Institute and that this was therefore yet another criticism of Gerald Bradford and the so-called “new MI” that Hamblin, DCP, Gee, and others spent so much energy attacking.

But as you say, Welch provided this comment roughly 7 years ago—so, 2017 or thereabouts. It’s worth pointing out that he *did not* say, “Oh, well, my buddy and colleague Dan P. has continued to carry the torch over at Interpreter!” Interpreter had been steadily pumping out crap for 5 years at that point.

[Doctor Scratch]

But here is the million dollar question (or one of them, anyway) that would clear up Welch's relationship to his "protege": What did Welch think of "Metcalfe is Butthead"? Did he laugh about this? Did he express a kind of "sourpuss" disapproval at these juvenile antics? Did he high-five Bill Hamblin when Hamblin showed up to a FARMS meeting wearing a "Beavis and Butthead" T-shirt? These may seem like silly questions, but they would actually shed a whole lot of light on Welch's character, and on the kind of Mopologist that he is, exactly. It would also provide some definitive clues about the accuracy of DCP's (rather desperate-seeming) assertions that he and Welch are "good friends." "Good" in the sense that he overlooked this sort of reckless, jackass behavior? Or "good" in the sense that he's a "comrade in arms" who's totally down for all the ribald, locker room antics?

My guess is he didn't express anything. From what I have read and seen of him, which is not a whole lot, if he was a food item he would be a piece of toast without butter. He comes off as a person that if he was mowing his lawn, and had to fart, he would turn off the mower and go to the rest room to do so. LoL....my father was like that.

I’m inclined to see things the same way: he seems rather “buttoned down,” but that is pure speculation on my part. I mean, it may very well be that he was in stitches over the whole “Korihor’s Press” fiasco. Maybe he was laughing himself silly over Dan and Bill’s Excellent Adventure with the 2nd Watson Letter. But I rather doubt it. I imagine that Welch is the sort of LDS who doesn’t find it amusing to tell bald-faced lies about official First Presidency statements.

[Moksha]

I remember chatting with Jack on the phone around seven years ago and asking what he thought of how his FARMS organization had turned out.

He chuckled good-naturedly that there was precious little remaining of what he had envisioned FARMS to be.

Then came Scripture Central…

Sounds like Dr. Scratch is right then and he has written off FAIR and Interpreter as ineffectual fellow travelers. Was there a reverberation sound to that good-natured chuckle?

[Doctor Scratch]

I remember chatting with Jack on the phone around seven years ago and asking what he thought of how his FARMS organization had turned out.

He chuckled good-naturedly that there was precious little remaining of what he had envisioned FARMS to be.

Then came Scripture Central…

Sounds like Dr. Scratch is right then and he has written off FAIR and Interpreter as ineffectual fellow travelers. Was there a reverberation sound to that good-natured chuckle?

I *am* right. Look: if FAIR and Interpreter were “getting the job done”—however you want to define that—then why was there a need for Scripture Central? I think that Welch correctly realized that both organizations have been hobbled with bad reputations. I mean, has there been a single “blow up” embarrassment at SC yet? And obviously someone at Church headquarters sees Scripture Central as “valuable,” given the huge funding amounts that are flowing in.

[Moksha]

I *am* right. Look: if FAIR and Interpreter were “getting the job done”—however you want to define that—then why was there a need for Scripture Central? I think that Welch correctly realized that both organizations have been hobbled with bad reputations. I mean, has there been a single “blow up” embarrassment at SC yet? And obviously someone at Church headquarters sees Scripture Central as “valuable,” given the huge funding amounts that are flowing in.

Plus, nobody from Scripture Central threw daggers at the Joseph Smith Papers Project or made a transcontinental apologetic combat mission as part of an overly aggressive personality quirk.

[Markk]

Scratch wrote...I *am* right. Look: if FAIR and Interpreter were “getting the job done”—however you want to define that—then why was there a need for Scripture Central? I think that Welch correctly realized that both organizations have been hobbled with bad reputations. I mean, has there been a single “blow up” embarrassment at SC yet? And obviously someone at Church headquarters sees Scripture Central as “valuable,” given the huge funding amounts that are flowing in.

Let me throw this out there...

There has been so many post Essay, post Mormon Stories (and other pod casts), admissions and changes in LDS thought, that have fundamentally forced a new narrative and baseline for LDS theology and truth claim answers. Years ago folks could go to FARM's (MAD) and get simple faith promoting answers to the tough questions. They did not have to think that hard, they could see DCP and others as having control of the narrative, even if false.

in my opinion it was secretly promoted and allowed by the GBH presidency. Then the monologists started the hit pieces and were getting nasty, real nasty, even turning on each other and going different ways. Then TBM came in and had to clean it all up. He broke up the "bros" and Mopology as we knew it, and they went undergroundish and the "bros" came up with the Interpreter. It toed that line as best it could playing passively aggressive nice.

Then the Essays came out and destroyed many a argument the monologists held for years, over night. They then had to re-engineer all the old party talking points. All the while with a very small audience of "peers."

Today, with social media, podcasts, that trader Elder Nelson sticking his head it a hat , along with the new History Book Saints continuing to contradict and blow up all the arguments that these guy floated and defended for two decades flooding Mormondom. Now, the folks, the chapel Mormons, the 13 year old member with a smart phone needing those simple faith reassuring answers that FARM's had in their beginning are looking at Scripture Central, The Joseph Smith Foundation, Book of Mormon Evidences, and the re-edited FAIR LDS. They again have those easy, faith assuring answers.

I am asserting that the Interpreter is not getting the job done in that it was never really in the ball game, and that FAIR is not what it once was because it had to re-edit so much post Essays.