Muslims praying in a relief society room with images of Christ covered

[ceeboo]

Instructions for performing "salah" (Salah, also known as Salat or Prayer, is one of the five pillars of Islam and is a fundamental act of worship for Muslims. It involves the obligatory act of praying 5 times a day at set times.

When reciting these prayers (performing salat) Muslims say, "As-salamu alaika ay-yuhan nabiy-yu", - which means, "Peace be upon YOU, O Prophet.".

They do not pray - for example: "peace be upon the prophet" - or "God please send peace upon the prophet" - they are praying directly to Muhammad when they pray "peace be unto YOU, O prophet. All Muslim sources claim that performing salat is a fundamental act of worship.

So, when I read that DCP suggests "Muslims worship Muhammad" is "an astonishing claim" and a "crazy declaration", I was surprised.

Again, I am not trying to score points against Islam (I am fairly familiar with Islam/Muhammad/Iasha/Idda's/Quranic verses/Caba/Black Stone/etc) If I wanted to score points against Islam, I could do that. I made a very brief post about one of the things on DCP's list (I picked the first one on the list) because I was surprised by it. That's all.

Ceebs when I say "show me" I'm asking for something authoritative from the Isamic community itself, a primary source. Not your personal description.

Lol.

[Jersey Girl]

Ceebs when I say "show me" I'm asking for something authoritative from the Isamic community itself, a primary source. Not your personal description.

Lol.

Why do you think that's funny, Ceebs?

[Kishkumen]

Muslims do not worship Mohammed.

[Jersey Girl]

Muslims do not worship Mohammed.

That's what I said. So far as I am aware, Mohammed is a fully human messenger for Allah. I could be wrong.

But I'm not wrong.

[IWMP]

Show me.

Instructions for performing "salah" (Salah, also known as Salat or Prayer, is one of the five pillars of Islam and is a fundamental act of worship for Muslims. It involves the obligatory act of praying 5 times a day at set times.

When reciting these prayers (performing salat) Muslims say, "As-salamu alaika ay-yuhan nabiy-yu", - which means, "Peace be upon YOU, O Prophet.".

They do not pray - for example: "peace be upon the prophet" - or "God please send peace upon the prophet" - they are praying directly to Muhammad when they pray "peace be unto YOU, O prophet. All Muslim sources claim that performing salat is a fundamental act of worship.

So, when I read that DCP suggests "Muslims worship Muhammad" is "an astonishing claim" and a "crazy declaration", I was surprised.

Again, I am not trying to score points against Islam (I am fairly familiar with Islam/Muhammad/Iasha/Idda's/Quranic verses/Caba/Black Stone/etc) If I wanted to score points against Islam, I could do that. I made a very brief post about one of the things on DCP's list (I picked the first one on the list) because I was surprised by it. That's all.

Whenever a Muslim says Muhammad, they say peace be upon you/him regardless of what context. There are a few quirks like this. Like when they say insha'Allah after certain sentences or marshallah. Or when they talk of someone's prettiness they say a word at the end that protects them from the evil eye.

Like for example they could say, " Our prophets name is Mohammed, peace be upon him".

I personally don't know if they direct prayers to Mohammed though. I just know there are quirks that they say at the end of a lot of sentences to show respect or whatever.

[IWMP]

DCP made another great post on this:

Frankly, I’ve been discouraged and disheartened by some of the responses to the issue. Many have been supportive of the idea of permitting others to pray in one of our buildings. (This has actually happened many times, in many locations, over many years.) But some have been concerned, and a few have been vehemently opposed. What I’ve found most depressing has been the militant ignorance of some of the opponents. (I confess, though, that it’s amusing to be told by a few of them that I need to read the Qur’an and learn something about Islam; I’ve read the Qur’an and taught the Qur’an — in both English translation and Arabic — more times than I can count, and I’ve taught and written about Islam for decades. This article in the Ensign was specifically requested by the First Presidency, which ought to suggest at least something of how the leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints regard Islam and choose to approach the topic.)

I’ve read some astonishing claims that have been advanced with absolute assurance. Here are some of them, and I’m only picking a few of the more obviously crazy declarations:

Muslims worship Muhammad.
Muslims are commanded to kill Christians.
Allah is the name of a false god, like Apollo or Zeus.
Islam is to be imposed by force.
The prominent philosophers, scientists, and mathematicians of the Islamic golden age were mostly Jews and Christians.
Jews and Christians have always been suppressed by Islamic rule.
Islam has always smothered progress and Islamic civilization has contributed nothing to the world.
Christians are forbidden to worship in many Islamic countries.
Lebanon was a wonderful place until Muslims began to move into it (which apparently occurred fairly recently).
Islam despises Jesus.
Islam means “submission,” which means submission to a Muslim ruler.

Like an alcoholic walking by the swinging doors of a tavern, I find it almost irresistibly tempting to respond to some of this.

One fellow, imagining himself to be delivering the death blow against me, demanded whether I was seriously arguing that Jesus and Allah are the same person. I responded that, yes, that was precisely what I was arguing — I’m leaving aside, for the moment, the distinction between Father and Son — and that I was doing so on the basis of the first verse of the Gospel of John, where “the Word” is almost universally understood by Christians as a reference to Jesus Christ. I provide the passage here first in the King James translation, and then in a standard Arabic rendering:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

1 فِي البَدْءِ كَانَ الكَلِمَةُ
وَكَانَ الكَلِمَةُ مَعَ اللهِ،
وَكَانَ الكَلِمَةُ هُوَ اللهَ.
Now, I “merge” them:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God [Allah], and the Word was God [Allah]. (John 1:1)
QED.

Of course, we can do similar things with other biblical passages, to say nothing of the other Standard Works. In Genesis 1:1, who created the heavens and the earth? The Arabic versions of the Bible all make it perfectly clear that it was Allah who created the heavens and the earth. Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians all worship Allah, just as the German-speakers who still worship at all worship Gott, and French-speakers worship Dieu and Spanish-speakers worship Dios.

As to the claim that Christians aren’t allowed to worship in many Islamic nations, I want to add an additional comment: Maybe Taliban-ruled Afghanistan comes closest to being an officially Christian-free Islamic State. But it’s an exceptionally extreme and toxic place in every regard. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has organized units — wards and stakes as well as branches and districts — that meet on the Arabian Peninsula (including Saudi Arabia), in Lebanon, Pakistan, Jordan, Turkey, Egypt, Malaysia, and etc. I’ve worshiped in several of them myself. Temples have been announced for the United Arab Emirates and for Jakarta, Indonesia. And I like the design of the stake center in Abu Dhabi, shown above. It’s unique and, I think, quite beautiful.

My only small criticism (I think I’ve said this before in a more sarcastic and harsh manner) is that I wish DCP would similarly respect atheism, and avoid repeating misconceptions about their beliefs (or in this case lack thereof).

The main misconception being that atheists are “just as dogmatic as theists.” Atheism is by definition simply the lack of theistic belief. A rock is atheist, just like a rock is apolitical, and that doesn’t mean the rock is dogmatic. An atheist could be dogmatic in their belief God certainly does not exist, but that is rarely the case when you ask them what they believe.

I think a deep understanding of someone else’s worldview, like DCP has with Islam, fosters great respect. We should all strive to do this even with the worldviews we most disagree with.

I was told by a Muslim that if he were to ask me 3 times to join Islam after teaching me about it then he would have the right to kill me. I think he was just trying to scare me.

[drumdude]

Oof. I sure hope so.

I know here in the news a few years back, there were lots of Muslim attacks in Northern Europe. I hope they’ve subsided since.

[huckelberry]

drumdude, i think your comments about prayer and saints were pretty spot on for his subject.

[drumdude]

drumdude, i think your comments about prayer and saints were pretty spot on for his subject.

Thank you!

I know Mormons get a little miffed when critics say they worship Joseph. But I experienced firsthand the uncomfortable feeling every time I had to sing “Praise to the man” in my ward. And we sung it a lot, basically every 3rd hour at the beginning of priesthood meeting.

I got a similar feeling when Catholics overemphasize the saints. Burying St Whoever in the yard to help sell their house felt overly superstitious.

I wonder if there are some ex-Muslims who felt uncomfortable praying to Muhammad, if that is the correct way to interpret the translation.

[IWMP]

Oof. I sure hope so.

I know here in the news a few years back, there were lots of Muslim attacks in Northern Europe. I hope they’ve subsided since.

I wouldn't call them Muslim attacks. I'd call them terrorist attacks. People who kill in the name of Islam aren't true Islamists, they have had their minds thwarted by extremists in the name of destruction.