The non-coin coin system of the Book of Mormon. Scam?

[Shulem]

Search Alma 11:21–22, and discover how much money Zeezrom offered Amulek and what he wanted Amulek to do for it. An “onti” was the most valuable of the Nephites’ silver coins (see Alma 11:6, 11–13). One onti was equal to approximately one week’s wages for a judge (see Alma 11:3).

[Gabriel]

A Nephite Senine (equal to a measure of barley or other kind of grain)
A Hebrew Shekel

A Nephite Shiblon = 1/2 Senine (or half a measure of Barley)
A Hebrew Beka = 1/2 Shekel

A Nephite Shiblum = 1/4 Senine
A Hebrew Drachm = 1/4 Shekel (englished as a “Farthing” in the Bible)

A Nephite Leah = 1/8 Senine (the lowest value of Nephite money).
A Hebrew Prutah = 1/8 Shekel (the lowest value of Hebrew coinage. Its weight is half of a barley-corn. This is the widow’s mite.)

It comes down to the basic and common POWER OF 4! Joseph Smith was aware of the power of four and even correctly surmised a connection thereof with the Four Sons of Horus in Facsimile No. 2, Fig. 6: "Represents this earth in its four quarters." And then there are the four winds and four cardinal directions -- thus, four.

But with Nephite money we also have a power of 4 being fractioned wherein the single (1) base unit is divided:

1) Senine = 1 measure of grain
2) Shiblon = 1/2 measure of grain
3) Shiblum = 1/4 measure of grain
4) Leah = 1/8 measure of grain

This is not rocket science and even a child can play this game. Joseph Smith understood the value of a dollar. He had a basic sense of fractions and how they relate to the whole. But when it came to very large numbers he missed the mark because the Nephite money system doesn't account for that kind of reckoning.

From Alma we learn that there is a perfect parity between silver, gold, and measures of grain:

Alma 11:7 -- A senum of silver was equal to a senine of gold, and either for a measure of barley, and also for a measure of every kind of grain.

Here are the larger values of Nephite monetary system:

7 measures of grain = 7 senines of gold = 7 senums of silver = 1 limnah of gold = (1 shum of gold + 1 seon of gold + 1 senine of gold) = 1 onti of silver = (1 ezrom of silver + 1 amnor of silver + 1 senum of silver).

4 measures of grain = 4 senines of gold = 4 senums of silver = 1 shum of gold = 1 ezrom of silver

2 measures of grain = 2 senines of gold = 2 senums of silver = 1 seon of gold = 1 amnor of silver

1 measure of grain = 1 senine of gold = 1 senum of silver

And here's one curveball:

Alma 11:19 Now an antion of gold is equal to three shiblons.

1 ½ measures of grain = 1 antion of gold = 3 shiblons = (1 senine of gold + 1 shiblon) = (1 senum of silver + 1 shiblon)

It’s also interesting that in this very chapter the subject of deadbeat debtors is addressed:

Alma 11:2 Now if a man owed another, and he would not pay that which he did owe, he was complained of to the judge; and the judge executed authority, and sent forth officers that the man should be brought before him; and he judged the man according to the law and the evidences which were brought against him, and thus the man was compelled to pay that which he owed, or be stripped, or be cast out from among the people as a thief and a robber.

It's regrettable that Mormon edited out the part where the accused debtors were dragged to the cell door marked: SENINES ONLY PLEASE!
It certainly would have spared future generations a bunch of needless bickering.

[Shulem]

It's regrettable that Mormon edited out the part where the accused debtors were dragged to the cell door marked: SENINES ONLY PLEASE!

Gabriel, spot on!

Mormon later wrote about a greedy Jaredite king by the name of Riplakish who reigned 42 years "and he did erect him an exceedingly beautiful throne; and he did build many prisons, and whoso would not be subject unto taxes he did cast into prison; and whoso was not able to pay taxes he did cast into prison." Then we learn (Ether 10:7) how this wicked king "did obtain all his fine work, yea, even his fine  gold he did cause to be refined in prison; and all manner of fine workmanship he did cause to be wrought in prison."

QUESTION: Did the labor of working with fine metals also include the royal mint produced by prisoners who failed to pay debts?

The next king (Morianton) who was also wicked "built up many cities, and the people became exceedingly rich under his reign, both in buildings, and in gold and silver, and in raising grain."

Now, hold that thought and consider the implications of royal members of the Jaredite nation bearing the names of two of Alma's coins as also the very name of a son of Alma whose name was Shiblon (Alma 38:5):

1) Shiblon (Ether 1:11)
2) Shiblum or (Shiblom; Mormon 6:14 & Ether 10:4)

I find it rather suspicious that names for Nephite coins are rooted in Jaredite names. Moreover, why would Alma name his son after that of a low value coin that's only worth 1/2 a measure of grain? That seems like an insult.

RED FLAGS!

[Gadianton]

Thank you for the vote of confidence. I'm glad your thread has received some attention and that I've popped in to assist. I hope you're not disappointed with the outcome.

I think it's going great. It's amazing all the little things that come up. I noticed that MG dipped his toes in and then ran for the hills when he realized mercy can rob justice by a judge's daily take. The lurkers' testimonies must be getting crushed.

You guys have delved into the judges and the description of how debtors were handled who didn't pay their debts. It's drastic. Stripped naked and cast out of the community for non-payment? Something tells me that Joseph Smith wasn't sporting an 850 credit score. Why was he so fascinated with this hardline policy? Or was this an implicit criticism because the judges had strayed from Mosiah's more merciful reign?

He had a basic sense of fractions and how they relate to the whole. But when it came to very large numbers he missed the mark because the Nephite money system doesn't account for that kind of reckoning

The apologists cite the discovery of Mesopotamia as a win as both grain and silver were standards there, and DCP suggests the Nephites had a similar system of weights and measures rather than coins. Well, not even Rome had currency that covered huge transactions, and neither do we. We have a range of 1 - 100 dollar bills. Weights come first in the rise of civilization standardizing value with precious metals, from small weights to very large or huge weights. A talent was 3,600 shekels. So Dan suggests the Nephites are in this early phase rather than a later development with a coinage monetary system. There's no benefit to minting coins that weigh 70 pounds. Coins get printed in the range where liquidity matters -- small and medium transactions. Liquidity is so important that people can deal with minor debasing of printed coins -- the value extends beyond the silver content.

But any civilization that develops coins, first has the system of weights that cover the full range. As the pressures for liquidity mount, coins are developed to cover small-medium transactions. The fact that the "weights" cover exactly what we'd expect of coins shows they aren't weights. The Nephite coinage system is abstracted from the context of a real civilization's monetary system that has small to very large weight units of precious metals but then develops coins later on to handle the small stuff.

[Shulem]

Moreover, why would Alma name his son after that of a low value coin that's only worth 1/2 a measure of grain? That seems like an insult.

THEREFORE

Now the eldest of his sons he took not with him, and his name was Helaman; but the names of those whom he took with him were Shiblon Half a Measure of Grain and  Corianton; and these are the names of those who went with him among the Zoramites, to preach unto them the word.

HOW IS 1/2 A MEASURE PROSPEROUS?

My son (1/2 Measure of Grain), give ear to my words, for I say unto you, even as I said unto Helaman, that inasmuch as ye shall keep the commandments of God ye shall prosper in the land; and inasmuch as ye will not keep the commandments of God ye shall be cut off from his presence.

HOW IS 1/2 A MEASURE STEADY AND FAITHFULL?

And now, my son (1/2 Measure of Grain), I trust that I shall have great joy in you, because of your steadiness and your faithfulness unto God; for as you have commenced in your youth to look to the Lord your God, even so I hope that you will continue in keeping his commandments; for blessed is he that endureth to the end.

HOW DOES 1/2 A MEASURE MAKE A MAN FULL OF VIRTUE?

I say unto you, my son (1/2 Measure of Grain), that I have had great joy in thee already, because of thy faithfulness and thy diligence, and thy patience and thy long-suffering among the people of the Zoramites.

HOW IS 1/2 A MEASURE GOOD ENOUGH?

And now my son, Shiblon Half a Measure of Grain, I would that ye should remember, that as much as ye shall put your trust in God even so much ye shall be delivered out of your trials, and your troubles, and your afflictions, and ye shall be lifted up at the last day.

I think it's a red flag that Alma named his son after that of a cheap coin. I doubt Joseph Smith ever made that connection when selecting names for his stories. I also think this may be the first time this has been expressed in a critical format.

Thanks, Shulem!

[Gadianton]

It's a good point, Shulem, how many have named their kid Farthing?

[Shulem]

But any civilization that develops coins, first has the system of weights that cover the full range. As the pressures for liquidity mount, coins are developed to cover small-medium transactions. The fact that the "weights" cover exactly what we'd expect of coins shows they aren't weights. The Nephite coinage system is abstracted from the context of a real civilization's monetary system that has small to very large weight units of precious metals but then develops coins later on to handle the small stuff.

It makes sense that the coinage was for small to medium transactions. The six onties offered to Amulek as a reward for denying the existence of God is the largest transaction. Weights of silver and gold for very large transactions are nowhere expressed in the 1,000 years of history that comprises Nephite civilization. I find the Book of Mormon to lack credibility. The apologists reject coinage because there is no evidence found in the dirt to prove there were Nephites. Lack of evidence makes the apologists constantly fall back and make excuses for everything.

You will agree that all these observations we make are useful and helpful.

[Shulem]

It's a good point, Shulem, how many have named their kid Farthing?

I can't think of any reason why a parent would name their child after a low value coin or half a measure of grain. It seems more likely that Smith simply recycled names to suit characters in his story.

Imagine naming two of your kids: Nickel and Dime to commemorate coins that nobody today even uses! How about:

Daniel Coin Peterson

or

Daniel 1/2 Measure Peterson

[Shulem]

It's regrettable that Mormon edited out the part where the accused debtors were dragged to the cell door marked: SENINES ONLY PLEASE!

You'd think a debtors' prison would require full payment and surely there were judgments having fractional values as part of the total amount due. Mormon Jesus Joseph Smith did not take that into consideration. The whole purpose of what Jewish Jesus said at Jerusalem was to remind everyone that every bit of debt must be accounted for, even the tiniest amount. But Joseph Smith didn't take that into consideration when he popped off one of the names of his Nephite coins when copying text out of the King James Version of the Bible.

Red flag! Wouldn't you say?

[Gadianton]

Shulem, if you wouldn't mind taking a crack at this one form above:

You guys have delved into the judges and the description of how debtors were handled who didn't pay their debts. It's drastic. Stripped naked and cast out of the community for non-payment? Something tells me that Joseph Smith wasn't sporting an 850 credit score. Why was he so fascinated with this hardline policy?