Brother of LDS apostle (Christofferson) charged with attempting to sexually exploit children in Utah and Ohio

[I Have Questions]

Will law enforcement look into the timeline and how the church was involved or will they be satisfied the perp was caught? Is this going to be another judgement call from the DA's? If so my money is on the church escaping scrutiny again and leaving a wake of victims multiple decades long. Scratch that. The church began by leaving a wake of SA victims so it is 100s of years instead of Christofferson's decades.

I think law enforcement can look into the historic offences now that they have been reported by the Ohio father (and confessed to by the abuser) providing there’s no statute of limitations. I’d imagine they will take as many offences into consideration as they can prove.

As it stands this is a serial abuser who has, it seems, only offended within his own extended family. That’s only my impression from the information available. Based on the alleged offending I cannot see a legitimate reason for why the Church has inserted itself into this private family situation. The Church hasn’t been accused and charged with anything. As I understand it, when faced with the knowledge his daughter had been groomed and was being abused by a relative, the Utah victim’s father called the Church. Not the police. If I have that right, I find that incredible.

It would be interesting to know who Wade Christofferson’s personal legal representation is, and who is paying their bill. So far that information has not been disclosed.

[Rivendale]

Will law enforcement look into the timeline and how the church was involved or will they be satisfied the perp was caught? Is this going to be another judgement call from the DA's? If so my money is on the church escaping scrutiny again and leaving a wake of victims multiple decades long. Scratch that. The church began by leaving a wake of SA victims so it is 100s of years instead of Christofferson's decades.

I think law enforcement can look into the historic offences now that they have been reported by the Ohio father (and confessed to by the abuser) providing there’s no statute of limitations. I’d imagine they will take as many offences into consideration as they can prove.

As it stands this is a serial abuser who has, it seems, only offended within his own extended family. That’s only my impression from the information available. Based on the alleged offending I cannot see a legitimate reason for why the Church has inserted itself into this private family situation. The Church hasn’t been accused and charged with anything.

It would be interesting to know who Wade Christofferson’s personal legal representation is, and who is paying their bill. So far that information has not been disclosed.

If you remember Spotlight the Archdiocese used all kinds of maneuvers to keep the records sealed but the Boston Globe eventually forced the release of the records. But that was thousands of pages. I wonder if we have a similar situation here. How many abuse cases had asterisks or asterisks that were removed?

[Dr. Shades]

If you remember Spotlight the Archdiocese used all kinds of maneuvers to keep the records sealed but the Boston Globe eventually forced the release of the records. But that was thousands of pages. I wonder if we have a similar situation here. How many abuse cases had asterisks or asterisks that were removed?

Is this, perhaps, why the church is hoarding hundreds of billions of dollars? They know they'll have to pay damages to all the victims at some point?

[malkie]

He likely realizes that that will gain him some sympathy from a certain part of the population.

I don’t know. I don’t have a theory of mind for child abusers.

Nor do I, Res.

But I have a fair idea, from both sides of the desk (both "sinner" and judge), what it looks like when a Mormon confesses to, or is accused of, a transgression. That includes admission of guilt when accused, and denial.

[Equality]

This is getting worse. Many unanswered questions. Where was the inspiration of the Holy Ghost when the prophet and apostles approved the expungement of the notation from his file? This enabled him to hold positions in multiple bishoprics, providing unrestricted access to children.

If you ever had doubts about whether the leaders are inspired or receive revelation from God, it's time to stop doubting those doubts.

Why do you assume there was no inspiration from the Holy Ghost?

Mormon god has a very sick and disturbing system of moral values. He's a genuinely psychotic sadist.

There is no reason to believe that if Mormon god exists and has the morality attributed to him by the Bible, LDS scriptures, and LDS prophets, that he wouldn't inspire his prophets, seers, and revelators to cover up the sexual abuse of a child.

After all, this is the guy who murdered everyone on earth, save 8 souls, by drowning them; ordered Abraham to murder his own son; played a trick on Jephthah knowing that he would end up having to murder his own daughter; murdered all the first-born children in Egypt for the alleged sin of one man; and on and on for a few thousand years before he decided to come down to earth and rape a 13-year-old girl to father a son whom he commanded had to be tortured and killed, you know for our own good, right?; and on and on.

What a sicko. Why wouldn't he take glee in helping his "servants" cover up crimes against children?

[malkie]

This is getting worse. Many unanswered questions. Where was the inspiration of the Holy Ghost when the prophet and apostles approved the expungement of the notation from his file? This enabled him to hold positions in multiple bishoprics, providing unrestricted access to children.

If you ever had doubts about whether the leaders are inspired or receive revelation from God, it's time to stop doubting those doubts.

Why do you assume there was no inspiration from the Holy Ghost?

Mormon god has a very sick and disturbing system of moral values. He's a genuinely psychotic sadist.

There is no reason to believe that if Mormon god exists and has the morality attributed to him by the Bible, LDS scriptures, and LDS prophets, that he wouldn't inspire his prophets, seers, and revelators to cover up the sexual abuse of a child.

After all, this is the guy who murdered everyone on earth, save 8 souls, by drowning them; ordered Abraham to murder his own son; played a trick on Jephthah knowing that he would end up having to murder his own daughter; murdered all the first-born children in Egypt for the alleged sin of one man; and on and on for a few thousand years before he decided to come down to earth and rape a 13-year-old girl to father a son whom he commanded had to be tortured and killed, you know for our own good, right?; and on and on.

What a sicko. Why wouldn't he take glee in helping his "servants" cover up crimes against children?

MG apparently disagrees:

I'd be interested to hear your take on "the arguments that would try and persuade one to look at God as a 'monster'." Would you like to to quote Old Testament passages that show your god behaving in a way, and commanding actions, that I think most of us non- and ex-Mormons would consider to be reprehensible?

I think you might be aware of Old Testament scholarship that defends the God of the Old Testament and shows Him to be someone other than a monster.

This might be a good place to start:

{{{ illegitimate link to Gemini AI content deleted }}}

On a board like this, malkie, I'm not willing to spend the time necessary to answer each and every question, especially when I know that there are obvious differences of opinion readily available to anyone willing to do the research/footwork.

For me, it is just plain common sense that the God of the Universe would have the welfare of all His children in mind as He set up 'the plan'. He wasn't born yesterday. Some folks seem to think God is dumb or something.

Regards,
MG

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

This is getting worse. Many unanswered questions. Where was the inspiration of the Holy Ghost when the prophet and apostles approved the expungement of the notation from his file? This enabled him to hold positions in multiple bishoprics, providing unrestricted access to children.

If you ever had doubts about whether the leaders are inspired or receive revelation from God, it's time to stop doubting those doubts.

Why do you assume there was no inspiration from the Holy Ghost?

Mormon god has a very sick and disturbing system of moral values. He's a genuinely psychotic sadist.

There is no reason to believe that if Mormon god exists and has the morality attributed to him by the Bible, LDS scriptures, and LDS prophets, that he wouldn't inspire his prophets, seers, and revelators to cover up the sexual abuse of a child.

After all, this is the guy who murdered everyone on earth, save 8 souls, by drowning them; ordered Abraham to murder his own son; played a trick on Jephthah knowing that he would end up having to murder his own daughter; murdered all the first-born children in Egypt for the alleged sin of one man; and on and on for a few thousand years before he decided to come down to earth and rape a 13-year-old girl to father a son whom he commanded had to be tortured and killed, you know for our own good, right?; and on and on.

What a sicko. Why wouldn't he take glee in helping his "servants" cover up crimes against children?

You’re not wrong, if the Bible is to be believed. It commands the genocide of entire cities like Jericho, orders the execution of firstborn children in Egypt, incites plagues that kill innocents, and employs brutal punishments of individuals for minor offenses, revealing a pattern of extreme psychopathy and dubious morality.

After all, if girls could be married off at the age of 12 within Talmudic tradition, why would God care if a servant of his in a Mormon community molested kids?

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Why do you assume there was no inspiration from the Holy Ghost?

Mormon god has a very sick and disturbing system of moral values. He's a genuinely psychotic sadist.

There is no reason to believe that if Mormon god exists and has the morality attributed to him by the Bible, LDS scriptures, and LDS prophets, that he wouldn't inspire his prophets, seers, and revelators to cover up the sexual abuse of a child.

After all, this is the guy who murdered everyone on earth, save 8 souls, by drowning them; ordered Abraham to murder his own son; played a trick on Jephthah knowing that he would end up having to murder his own daughter; murdered all the first-born children in Egypt for the alleged sin of one man; and on and on for a few thousand years before he decided to come down to earth and rape a 13-year-old girl to father a son whom he commanded had to be tortured and killed, you know for our own good, right?; and on and on.

What a sicko. Why wouldn't he take glee in helping his "servants" cover up crimes against children?

You’re not wrong, if the Bible is to be believed. It commands the genocide of entire cities like Jericho, orders the execution of firstborn children in Egypt, incites plagues that kill innocents, and employs brutal punishments of individuals for minor offenses, revealing a pattern of extreme psychopathy and dubious morality.

After all, if girls could be married off at the age of 12 within Talmudic tradition, why would God care if a servant of his in a Mormon community molested kids?

[Res Ipsa]

“The church” seems to be code for the Church lawyers. And both the fathers seems to have gone to Church leaders instead of the police. Why did the fathers go immediately to the Church’s law firm rather than to the police? I’m stunned. The alleged abuse wasn’t discovered as part of a confessional. The alleged abuse wasn’t perpetrated by a Church leader in a Church setting. There is no good reason, at this stage, for the Church to be involved, so why are they all over this like a rash?

That entire quote is signature-worthy. None of the facts you address make any sense whatsoever.

The whole scenario is beyond bizarre. It's like everyone involved went completely insane.

The information we have is pretty sketchy. The Trib said it was omitting how the perp knew the victims to protect their identity. My WAG is that the victims are the perp’s grandchildren (or some other family members). That’s why the two fathers were talking to each other.

We also don’t know what the church spokesperson meant when he refers to the church being informed and the church reporting. If the Utah dad is a bishop, do his acts count as acts of the church? Would it if he had any other calling? We also appear to have information from Ohio LEOs about the original reporting there, but I haven’t seen anything from Utah LEOs. We don’t know what they were doing.

It seems possible that the church could have been first notified through the hotline. The text indicates the perp had or was going to confess to his bishop. We just don’t know.

I’m not saying that additional information will make everyone involved look good. Just that it will likely make what we know make a little more sense.

[I Have Questions]

That entire quote is signature-worthy. None of the facts you address make any sense whatsoever.

The whole scenario is beyond bizarre. It's like everyone involved went completely insane.

The information we have is pretty sketchy. The Trib said it was omitting how the perp knew the victims to protect their identity. My WAG is that the victims are the perp’s grandchildren (or some other family members). That’s why the two fathers were talking to each other.

We also don’t know what the church spokesperson meant when he refers to the church being informed and the church reporting. If the Utah dad is a bishop, do his acts count as acts of the church? Would it if he had any other calling? We also appear to have information from Ohio LEOs about the original reporting there, but I haven’t seen anything from Utah LEOs. We don’t know what they were doing.

It seems possible that the church could have been first notified through the hotline. The text indicates the perp had or was going to confess to his bishop. We just don’t know.

I’m not saying that additional information will make everyone involved look good. Just that it will likely make what we know make a little more sense.

We “know” from the reporting that Wade Christofferson was caught red-handed grooming and sexually coercing a minor by that minor’s father during a personal phone call. So that’s not an offence in a Church setting. We know that Utah father called another father in Ohio as his first action. We know that the Utah father did not report to the police because the police report that they were informed by “the church”. We know that the Ohio father did report to police 24 hours later after a phone call(s) with Wade Christofferson during which Wade confessed to multiple further offences.

The first external contact, based on the reporting, was to “the Church”, despite this offending taking place outside of, and being discovered outside of, any Church-governed setting whatsoever. And it was “the Church” that informed the police of the offending in the first instance. If there are some facts that undermine that summary, I’ve missed them.

In fact the timeline is worse than I thought. This is from the Trib article quoted unthread

The federal prosecutors allege Christofferson had been using this secret language to shield his sexually explicit requests of the young girl in letters he had been sending her from Ohio for at least six months. The Utah father discovered the code on Nov. 5, prosecutors say, after he overheard a FaceTime conversation between his daughter and Christofferson and began asking them questions.

Police started investigating a week later after a man in Ohio — who knew about the alleged abuse in Utah — reported that Christofferson had allegedly sexually abused his daughter, too.

This timeline was detailed in a charging document that The Salt Lake Tribune obtained Thursday from the federal prosecutors’ office in southern Ohio.

The Utah father discovers the offending on November the 5th. But the police aren’t informed until November the 12th, a week later. The Ohio father goes straight to the police, immediately, but it’s 7 days after the offending was first discovered in Utah. Which suggests, if the timeline of events is accurate, that the Utah father kept it quiet from the Ohio father for a week, as well as keeping it from the police.