Husbands/fathers as spiritual leaders in the home

[Limnor]

By the way, I am not accusing anyone here of making fun of someone else's theological views. I am speaking to the common, mutual misunderstandings that exist between Christians and Mormon Christians that frequenly take a dismissive and ridiculing form.

I think this is fair. I’ve certainly made fun of some Mormon beliefs, and I won’t pretend otherwise.

For me, it’s not that MG believes differently than I do. It’s that I question whether he’s engaging sincerely with the questions I’m asking.

But given the recent posts I’ll give it a shot. An admission that there is no evidence of something taught before 325ad being restored is a starting place.

[Limnor]

It doesn't seem to match up with what I've read in the Bible itself. Joseph's theological development of a corporeal God composed of matter, albeit matter of a different composition or form than we might understand, makes more sense to me. I do have a problem with the description of literal "flesh and bone" though. That doesn't make sense to me at all.

This is encouraging. Would you be willing to provide examples of what you have read that don’t seem to result in Trinitarian conclusions?

[MG 2.0]

It doesn't seem to match up with what I've read in the Bible itself. Joseph's theological development of a corporeal God composed of matter, albeit matter of a different composition or form than we might understand, makes more sense to me. I do have a problem with the description of literal "flesh and bone" though. That doesn't make sense to me at all.

This is encouraging. Would you be willing to provide examples of what you have read that don’t seem to result in Trinitarian conclusions?

I suppose we might start with the New Testament.

Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32
John 5:19
Luke 22:42 Matthew 26:39 Mark 14:36
John 6:38
John 14:28
I Corinthians 15:24-38
John 17:3
1 Corinthians 8:6
John 20:17

Regards,
MG

[Limnor]

This is encouraging. Would you be willing to provide examples of what you have read that don’t seem to result in Trinitarian conclusions?

I suppose we might start with the New Testament.

Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32
John 5:19
Luke 22:42 Matthew 26:39 Mark 14:36
John 6:38
John 14:28
I Corinthians 15:24-38
John 17:3
1 Corinthians 8:6
John 20:17

Regards,
MG

Maybe we should establish what the trinitarian doctrine actually is? Would you be willing to explain your understanding of the Nicene doctrine of the Trinity and how you believe these passages contradict it?

I’m saying this because it seems like your objection is that Jesus is separate from the Father, prays to the Father, and submits to the Father’s will? I think the doctrine supports those thoughts.

[MG 2.0]

I suppose we might start with the New Testament.

Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32
John 5:19
Luke 22:42 Matthew 26:39 Mark 14:36
John 6:38
John 14:28
I Corinthians 15:24-38
John 17:3
1 Corinthians 8:6
John 20:17

Regards,
MG

Maybe we should establish what the trinitarian doctrine actually is? Would you be willing to explain your understanding of the Nicene doctrine of the Trinity and how you believe these passages contradict it?

I’m saying this because it seems like your objection is that Jesus is separate from the Father, prays to the Father, and submits to the Father’s will? I think the doctrine supports those thoughts.

Limnor, you are admittedly better qualified to explain the doctrinal creeds after the time of Jesus and how they dovetail with these scriptural references. Would you be will to do so?

As it is, I think looking in from the outside (non traditional Christian) of the different conferences after the time of Jesus where doctrinal positions were hashed out, I see a mass of confusion and corruption. The scriptural references seem rather straight forward.

I would really appreciate it if you could straighten me out in regards to each one of these scriptural references if you feel like you would like to take the time.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
MG

[Limnor]

Maybe we should establish what the trinitarian doctrine actually is? Would you be willing to explain your understanding of the Nicene doctrine of the Trinity and how you believe these passages contradict it?

I’m saying this because it seems like your objection is that Jesus is separate from the Father, prays to the Father, and submits to the Father’s will? I think the doctrine supports those thoughts.

Limnor, you are admittedly better qualified to explain the doctrinal creeds after the time of Jesus and how they dovetail with these scriptural references. Would you be will to do so?

As it is, I think looking in from the outside (non traditional Christian) of the different conferences after the time of Jesus where doctrinal positions were hashed out, I see a mass of confusion and corruption. The scriptural references seem rather straight forward.

I would really appreciate it if you could straighten me out in regards to each one of these scriptural references if you feel like you would like to take the time.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
MG

Here’s a fairly straightforward explanation of the Trinity, including its biblical foundations:

https://www.biblegateway.com/learn/topi ... s-trinity/

After reading it, perhaps you could identify which specific teaching you believe contradicts the scriptures you’ve cited.

Also, you mentioned corruption again. If you believe the councils introduced corruption, what exactly do you see as corrupted, and what earlier Christian teaching was replaced?

[MG 2.0]

Limnor, you are admittedly better qualified to explain the doctrinal creeds after the time of Jesus and how they dovetail with these scriptural references. Would you be will to do so?

As it is, I think looking in from the outside (non traditional Christian) of the different conferences after the time of Jesus where doctrinal positions were hashed out, I see a mass of confusion and corruption. The scriptural references seem rather straight forward.

I would really appreciate it if you could straighten me out in regards to each one of these scriptural references if you feel like you would like to take the time.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
MG

Here’s a fairly straightforward explanation of the Trinity, including its biblical foundations:

https://www.biblegateway.com/learn/topi ... s-trinity/

After reading it, perhaps you could identify which specific teaching you believe contradicts the scriptures you’ve cited.

Also, you mentioned corruption again. If you believe the councils introduced corruption, what exactly do you see as corrupted, and what earlier Christian teaching was replaced?

Limnor, I agree with the position you're taking in that proponents of the creeds are going to look at these scriptural references and come away saying that they don't contradict Trinitarianism as they simply show that Incarnation and Subordination can explain it all.

Latter-day Saint takes a different view. These verses are read literally rather than filtering them through the Incarnation and Subordination lens/filter.

The Creeds take these verses and squeeze them to fit philosophical categories. At that point I would maintain the the verses in question become corrupted by Greek philosophy and other competing ideas present at that time(s). This happened over a significant length of time. That lends itself to corruption in my opinion.

A mass of confusion spread over years of deliberative argumentation and exegetical formulations to fit their own methodologies of finding 'the truth'.
And again, Greek philosophical categories playing large part in all of this.

The Restoration cuts through all the confusion and reconstructs, through revelation, everything so that it fits the plain, separate identities of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as described in the New Testament.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Thanks for the conversation Limnor as it appears from what you've said on another thread we will no longer engage.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

After reading it, perhaps you could identify which specific teaching you believe contradicts the scriptures you’ve cited.

Also, you mentioned corruption again. If you believe the councils introduced corruption, what exactly do you see as corrupted, and what earlier Christian teaching was replaced?

good luck with that

[MG 2.0]

After reading it, perhaps you could identify which specific teaching you believe contradicts the scriptures you’ve cited.

Also, you mentioned corruption again. If you believe the councils introduced corruption, what exactly do you see as corrupted, and what earlier Christian teaching was replaced?

good luck with that

Two posts up (mine), I believe, I did respond. The track record here is when I do respond it is either ignored, twisted to something I didn't say, or..."troll!".

Sound familiar?

Regards,
MG