The Rosebud MEGATHREAD

[Rosebud]

First, I was not a single woman when I worked for MS. I was a married woman.

And John was a married man who spent time ascertaining that I was in an abusive marriage (with a man who made threats against me and our children when I talked about divorcing him) before John started making intense moves on me. Yes, he was the one who was actively seeking the relationship and making advances, not me.... as I believe has been well proven considering the fact that he has been continuing the pattern to the present. (And it's so creepy the way these successive women look like me and Renee Z.)

At that point in my life, when John targeted me, I was in my mid-thirties and had never had an opportunity to have a normal relationship with any man because as a 20-yo Mormon child I had been married off to a man who was unwell. Of course when I got married at 20 I believed that I was making the decision as an adult, but I wasn't. I only believed that because I had been told I was an adult making an adult decision. I was a child. I shouldn't have been married to that awful man in the first place. I'd been pressured into the marriage by many people and things that all centered around Mormonism -- a religion at least partially founded on the exploitation of women. (Acknowledging, of course, the many good people, including many of my ancestors, were sincerely seeking to worship Christ and do good.)

Now that I'm divorced and have had the opportunity to learn more about real relationships and normal sex lives, I understand very well that John targeted and exploited what he very well knew to be a vulnerability. And that vulnerability was created by Mormonism. He was targeting women he knew to be vulnerable because he knew the specific ways in which being brought up and married off as Mormons made us vulnerable. That's very very ugly considering the way he recruited me, sussed me out, and exploited me. And, of course, getting through divorcing an abusive man after John's harassment was much more difficult than getting through divorcing an abusive man before John's harassment would have been. My abusive ex-husband followed through with all the threats he had been making since I was in my early 20s and added John to them. And at the same time, I had to manage John's ridiculous publicity stunts for his honorable September 6 excommunication. I was being attacked and threatened with negative publicity by both men simultaneously. Why? Because they both loved me and wanted to own me? But at that point, all I wanted was out and away from both of them.

I don't think either of them know what real love really can be.

I see the situation much more clearly the older and more experienced I get. And I see the me of my past much more clearly, too. Mormonism gives people a very skewed perspective about what is and isn't okay as far as "marriage," "sex," and "ownership" of women. I was lost in that thinking in 2010 when John began targeting me, but I'm not lost in it anymore. At the time I felt very guilty for being vulnerable to John's advances. Today I see what really happened. I see the me of the past from a more clear vantage point. She didn't deserve to be sucked into this drama. She reached out to John for "support" and "help" because he was advertising those services as a PhD candidate in psychology who wanted to support Mormons who had realized the church wasn't true. That Rosebud didn't deserve any of this and she shouldn't have been forced to defend herself from all John's ridiculous publicity threats....

.... because, remember, he is the one who turned this into a publicity thing when he publicized his false repentance (accusing the MS community members of being swingers and weed smokers) so he could get his September 6 excommunication and make money off of convincing people that he was a trustworthy hero out fighting for Mormons exploited by the church.

If I could go back in time, I would reach out to a divorce attorney instead of John Dehlin. But the me of my mid-thirties was afraid of attorneys and was still managing the fact that my children weren't yet in a place where they would have been safe from my husband's aggressions if I took steps towards divorce. I didn't feel safe reaching out to an attorney so I reached out to John instead. OMG... what a mistake.

I'm not afraid of attorneys anymore, but I'm also sick of them.

It's decided. I'm going to write the book. People have been asking me to do it for ages. Now is the right time. Go ahead, John, get RFM to do more of your dirty work for clicks, sue more of your victims, publicly accuse more people of to take attention away from yourself. Pretend we had "equal power" and that it was an "affair." Keep at it...

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I think writing a book would be a healthy process for you.

- Doc

[Rosebud]

Yes, Doc.... it will be healthy for me and for many other people. John Dehlin's role in my story is overall rather insignificant, but significant in what it implies about him and how it fits in with the rest of what I've witnessed and experienced.

Also, thanks again Dr. Shades for letting me speak on this board.

John's power over speech is so strong that this really was the only place I could use force him into calling me "Rosebud" instead of doxxing me to the extent he wanted. Using this board to stand up to that goal saved me from John's worst aggressions... even though he was eventually able to convince RFM and Nadine McCombs Hansen to do what he wanted.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I would humbly suggest the following:

1) create a skeleton upon which to hang the fleshed out portions of your story - In other words, just put together a bare bones head-to-toe narrative before you get into everything

2) i recommend a three act drama, pre-Open Stories Foundation life, Open Stories Foundation life, post-Open Stories Foundation like, and an epilogue

3) hire an editor for helpful tweaks and a discerning eye

- Doc

[Rosebud]

So, since I've decided to write a book, I'm taking the time to watch some of what is going on.

Yesterday, I literally watched John explain allegations that Ballard groomed adult women in his organization before he allegedly sexually harassed them. It's very bizarre for me to to watch him explain that dynamic with a semi-calm face, as if it's nothing he's ever done himself. Bizarre. I also watched him go into one of his collect-his-followers-to-attack-someone-who-is-attacking-him rampages because he received a court order to take a podcast down.

Then I started googling about that podcast that he was ordered to remove and listening to true crime audio about an adult boy scout sex abuse victim who sought support from a crooked therapist. I haven't had the time or energy to finish that one yet. Oh... and let's not forget the drama of child abuse therapists and "parenting experts" abusing their own children and finally getting caught.

Oh... and even the Attorney General of Utah giving himself Sound of Freedom credit over AG credit on his LInkedIn profile! And then switching it when drama started to go down?!? Disney wouldn't take the film... why was the AG of Utah part of the project? It's obviously a really bad and unprofessional idea to go into areas of poverty and demand young sex workers as an undercover "bad guy." Who does that stuff? It clearly creates demand. Why is the AG of Utah involved?

WTF?

(I was hoping I could see Sound of Freedom in the theatre but then I got covid.)

This is THE dynamic. Offenders pretending to be good guys catching bad guys. I swear I wrote something about this dynamic on my MormonRosebud.com website after I released my forensic interview. And for those who are young ex-Mormons, I released my forensic interview after John convinced RFM and Nadine (and of course Natasha, but she's been his right-hand woman for a long time) to do his dirty work.

What a month. What else will be uncovered?

And what happens next, John? Do you take all the emails you got from your followers about other people's wrongs to Vice? Will that help you? Do you think Vice will listen to you? Are you aware that you are appearing a bit manic?

Do you still want to keep doing John's dirty work, RFM?

[Rosebud]

Oh... and of course, the biggest offender of all, the church itself, must "distance" itself and point blame. Ballard was really shocked that he'd been cut off from the teat. Shaking my head.

This is what the Mormon vs. anti-Mormon dynamic has been covering up for generations.

[Marcus]

Oh... and of course, the biggest offender of all, the church itself, must "distance" itself and point blame. Ballard was really shocked that he'd been cut off from the teat. Shaking my head.

This is what the Mormon vs. anti-Mormon dynamic has been covering up for generations.

How does the Ballard and the LDS church situation have anything to do with "the Mormon vs. anti-Mormon dynamic"????

You are fixated on making everything fit into your "Mormon vs. anti-Mormon dynamic" and of course the "you vs. dehlin" dynamic.

When you said you were writing a book i thought you meant about your life, an autobiography. It sounds more like it is going to be another Ode to Dehlin, subtitled The Center of My Universe. That is really a cringey idea. Please don't. You are just making yourself look like a stalker. A really, really really unhinged stalker.

[Rosebud]

Marco, I did not read more than a few words of your post. It doesn't look like it's worth responding to.

John, I'd like to add that the reason the organization we were building in 2011 and 2012 had a chance of being successful at cutting through the real abuses was that it cut through the Mormon vs. anti-Mormon dynamic. That's what got Laurel Thatcher Ulrich saying things like, "This is something new. It's never happened before."

You knew that's what I was intentionally doing, because I explained it in so many words, but you didn't articulate that you were against it because you couldn't. It aligned just enough with your schemes that it fit well enough for a time. It just quit fitting when it started getting too successful. If I had really succeeded, it would have undermined what you were really doing. I didn't know that at the time, but you did. Right?

So it's looking obvious to me now, now that I know more about you and your techniques, that you weren't pleased with my (our?) success. It wasn't only that you needed to shut things down and repent to get your September 6 excommunication. It appears you needed to shut anything down that really might end the dynamic that covers up the offenses.

Prove to me that I'm wrong about this.

[Marcus]

Marco, I did not read more than a few words of your post. It doesn't look like it's worth responding to.

of course not. That's why you wrote an additional lengthy post attempting to justify your two 'dynamics.'

John, I'd like to add that the reason the organization we were building in 2011 and 2012 had a chance of being successful at cutting through the real abuses was that it cut through the Mormon vs. anti-Mormon dynamic. That's what got Laurel Thatcher Ulrich saying things like, "This is something new. It's never happened before."

You knew that's what I was intentionally doing, because I explained it in so many words, but you didn't articulate that you were against it because you couldn't. It aligned just enough with your schemes that it fit well enough for a time. It just quit fitting when it started getting too successful. If I had really succeeded, it would have undermined what you were really doing. I didn't know that at the time, but you did. Right?

So it's looking obvious to me now, now that I know more about you and your techniques, that you weren't pleased with my (our?) success. It wasn't only that you needed to shut things down and repent to get your September 6 excommunication. It appears you needed to shut anything down that really might end the dynamic that covers up the offenses.

Prove to me that I'm wrong about this.

You read like a stalker. Why not focus on putting your plan into place on your own?

[Moksha]

So, since I've decided to write a book, I'm taking the time to watch some of what is going on.

Wondered when we would see an actionable suit.