Alter Idem wrote:It may be inaccurate to state the the box has been found because obviously it hasn't. However, if you read the earlier post by Zakuska, David Whitmer claimed that the box was in pieces, washed down the hill in 1875. David was one of those dissenters and yet, he claims there was an actual box. I have no reason to believe he'd lie about that, since by this time he was no longer under "Joseph's spell"(no doubt as some critics see it).
Do you have reason to think he knew what he was talking about? The box was cemented together and survived over a thousand years. Are we to think the cement just dissolved once it's purpose for the ancient records was complete?
What I'd like to know is, what happened to the pieces? I've never heard this story so I doubt anyone went and retrieved the pieces. My sister suggested that certainly earlier church historian types would have retreived them, but what if they didn't know about them also? They certainly could have been carried off by now, but what if they are still there--If I lived in that area, I'd go look for them.
Why bother. They probably just dissovled like the cement.
What I, as a modern person wonder about is; the stone box was a piece of antiquity! Why the heck was it allowed to molder, decay and then wash down a hill, unless very few who even cared about it, knew about it.
Does stone and cement molder and decay? What magic is this?
Alter Idem wrote:What are we waiting for! I wonder if there is some kind of equipment that can be used to find hard objects under the earth--I think I saw something on CSI. Maybe someone at BYU could get up an expedition and permission to dig (of course it would need to be done quietly or they'd be labeled kooks).
Doesn't the church still have the seer stones that Joseph Smith used? I'd think they would be far more accurate than any man-made piece of equipment.
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
Not really... the box lay buried. Once the seal was broken and the contents removed. It filled up with water and washed down the hill. breaking the cement seems at it went
The Dude: "Does stone and cement molder and decay? What magic is this?"
Alter Idem: I didn't mean it like that, I meant that it seemed like quite a lasse faire attitude to allow a piece of antiquity to be abandoned on the side of a hill. Reminds me of the way people in the 50's used to consider victorian furniture "junk" and sent it to the trash heap. We all know how they treated Egyptian mummies in Joseph's time--ripping them open to look for jewels, burning them for fuel and unwrapping them for parties. It's just sad how little thought was taken for valuable ancient objects.
If the box "washed down the hill", that means there was enough rain over time that it could easily have dissolved the cement that held the box together.
Baurak Ale wrote:What would the Gold Plates Prove to you if they turned up? I am a believer however, I can't see how even if the gold plates materialized that they would prove anything, I don't follow? They could for example just be some gold plates of genuine antiquity that Joseph Smith found however they may of had no devine or religious significance. There are in fact gold Assyrian plates for example. I am puzzled by what believers and skeptics are trying to achieve as definitive truth or falsehood can never be achieved. If it could would someone please explain it to me?
I think the National Geographic story about these newly materialized Gold Plates of antiquity would in and of themselves cause conversion rates to skyrocket - especially in Central and South America. I imagine missionaries would hand out reprints from the story by the handful.
So now I've heard three totally different explanations for the missing box, all based on unverified reports.
1. It was washed down the hill an broken apart as the cement dissolved, the pieces were carried away. (By squirrels?)
2. It sank back into the earth when treasure hunters tried to lay their hands on it. But a corner was broken off as one of them tried to stop it. So if you ever see a stone box with a broken corner, you'll know it's the one.
3. Some farmer carried it away and used it as a flower box.
Anybody else have some good explanations? I like #2 the best since it's most in character with the early church.