Is the Mormon Leadership in a hidden panic?

[Anonymous]

Gazelam, in order for a conversation on doctrine to be warranted, there ought to be a belief in God first. A lot of critics don't believe anymore that God exists, so why would you expect them to bash with you about doctrine?

Bashing about doctrine is really just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. It's utterly irrelevant whose doctrine wins the discussion.

But if you want to talk about doctrine, go read my thread on MAD about Fanny Alger in the context of when the doctrine of the New and Everlasting Covenant was developed and the keys for practicing the required ordinances supposedly returned to earth, and come tell me which doctrine you think justified Joseph Smith's sleeping with Fanny without his wife's knowledge (until she found them rolling in the hay).

And, to be honest, reading all those quotes from Spencer W. Kimball about how awful and serious it is to be on the wrong side of the line in matters sexual, it's amazing to me how flippantly LDS believers will dismiss the charges against Joseph Smith. He was caught boinking the 16 year old girl who was living in their home, and he gets a pass, yet some 19 year old kid can't stop himself from spanking the monkey on occasion, and he's got to be wracked with guilt and spill buckets of tears and shut his little factory down to be "worthy" to go on a mission. The cog-diss in the comparison is breathtaking in scope. Joseph Smith was a blatant and rampant adulterer who is completely excused by the membership of the church he founded (at least those who even know a thing about it) because they've bought into the lie that God sent his holy angel down to command Joseph to deflower the teenage daughters (and even wives) of his associates and supporters. Give me a freaking break. Oh yeah, and you wanted to argue about doctrine?

[_It occurs to me . . .]

What's the turnover rate like within the LDS church?

Round 95 percent fall away within the first year

Hardly

It holds true for Japan, although the figure may be a little optimistic.
From The Cumorah Project: Remember, this is a pro-Mormon site!
http://www.cumorah.com/world/

Mexico:
Current LDS Unit Growth Rate: 0.87%
Relative LDS Unit Growth Rate (LDS unit growth rate minus population growth rate): -0.66%
Chile
Current LDS Unit Growth Rate: -1.61%
Relative LDS Unit Growth Rate (LDS unit growth rate minus population growth rate): -2.78%
Japan
Current LDS Unit Growth Rate: -0.16%
Relative LDS Unit Growth Rate (LDS unit growth rate minus population growth rate): -0.34%
Australia
Current LDS Unit Growth Rate: -0.17%
Relative LDS Unit Growth Rate (LDS unit growth rate minus population growth rate): -1.19%
France
Current LDS Unit Growth Rate: 0.8%
Relative LDS Unit Growth Rate (LDS unit growth rate minus population growth rate): 0.42%
Russia
Current LDS Unit Growth Rate: -0.87%
Relative LDS Unit Growth Rate (LDS unit growth rate minus population growth rate): -0.49%

My question. If retention is so great, why are there so many negative unit growth rates throughout the world, all while the total membership continues to increase?

[Anonymous]

But if you want to talk about doctrine, go read my thread on MAD about Fanny Alger in the context of when the doctrine of the New and Everlasting Covenant was developed and the keys for practicing the required ordinances supposedly returned to earth, and come tell me which doctrine you think justified Joseph Smith's sleeping with Fanny without his wife's knowledge (until she found them rolling in the hay).

And, to be honest, reading all those quotes from Spencer W. Kimball about how awful and serious it is to be on the wrong side of the line in matters sexual, it's amazing to me how flippantly LDS believers will dismiss the charges against Joseph Smith. He was caught boinking the 16 year old girl who was living in their home, and he gets a pass, yet some 19 year old kid can't stop himself from spanking the monkey on occasion, and he's got to be wracked with guilt and spill buckets of tears and shut his little factory down to be "worthy" to go on a mission. The cog-diss in the comparison is breathtaking in scope. Joseph Smith was a blatant and rampant adulterer who is completely excused by the membership of the church he founded (at least those who even know a thing about it) because they've bought into the lie that God sent his holy angel down to command Joseph to deflower the teenage daughters (and even wives) of his associates and supporters. Give me a freaking break. Oh yeah, and you wanted to argue about doctrine?

I'm going to start worshipping at the Church of Sethbag. Send the missionaries, you're my new guru. Just don't expect any sex in exchange for salvation.

[_Bond...James Bond]

My question. If retention is so great, why are there so many negative unit growth rates throughout the world, all while the total membership continues to increase?

As it's been said earlier, once you're on the books, you're on the books for life.

by the way: Welcome to the board. People with three dots in their names have to stick together. :)

[_It occurs to me . . .]

My question. If retention is so great, why are there so many negative unit growth rates throughout the world, all while the total membership continues to increase?

As it's been said earlier, once you're on the books, you're on the books for life.

by the way: Welcome to the board. People with three dots in their names have to stick together. :)

Thanks . . . .yeah, I know it's kind of a lame name, but it started on a whim, and I seem to be stuck with it!

[_Bond...James Bond]

My question. If retention is so great, why are there so many negative unit growth rates throughout the world, all while the total membership continues to increase?

As it's been said earlier, once you're on the books, you're on the books for life.

by the way: Welcome to the board. People with three dots in their names have to stick together. :)

Thanks . . . .yeah, I know it's kind of a lame name, but it started on a whim, and I seem to be stuck with it!

I'd would have tons of fun with that name. Sign off jokes would include:

It occurs to me...that Joseph Smith ate paint chips as a child.

It occurs to me...that the Book of Mormon makes a very useful coaster.

It occurs to me...that Joseph Smith was full of processed human feces.

[_Polygamy Porter]

Probably about 30% world wide. it varies from area to area. In my US ward and stake it is about 80% retention.

80% retention of CONVERTS?

I'd think not.

80% of the current membership, sure... Nothing binds like family.

[_It occurs to me . . .]

I'd would have tons of fun with that name. Sign off jokes would include:

It occurs to me...that Joseph Smith ate paint chips as a child.

It occurs to me...that the Book of Mormon makes a very useful coaster.

It occurs to me...that Joseph Smith was full of processed human feces.

HEY!, I'm still trying to maintain my status as a "cross-poster" . . . is that like a cross-dresser"? I enjoyed your posts over at MAD and hope to maintain my posting privileges for the time being. Does the very fact that I post here put me in jeopardy? It occurs to me that it has been the case for many posters:)

[_Bond...James Bond]

HEY!, I'm still trying to maintain my status as a "cross-poster" . . . is that like a cross-dresser"? I enjoyed your posts over at MAD and hope to maintain my posting privileges for the time being. Does the very fact that I post here put me in jeopardy? It occurs to me that it has been the case for many posters:)

You're only weird if you wear high heels and fishnets while cross posting. Thanks for the comment about my posting. I shall return if I can.

Yep you're in Jeopardy. Welcome to that wonderful world where the MAD Gestapo watches everything you do. Don't look up because the Sword of Damocles is dangling over your head.

[_why me]

But if you want to talk about doctrine, go read my thread on MAD about Fanny Alger in the context of when the doctrine of the New and Everlasting Covenant was developed and the keys for practicing the required ordinances supposedly returned to earth, and come tell me which doctrine you think justified Joseph Smith's sleeping with Fanny without his wife's knowledge (until she found them rolling in the hay).

And, to be honest, reading all those quotes from Spencer W. Kimball about how awful and serious it is to be on the wrong side of the line in matters sexual, it's amazing to me how flippantly LDS believers will dismiss the charges against Joseph Smith. He was caught boinking the 16 year old girl who was living in their home, and he gets a pass, yet some 19 year old kid can't stop himself from spanking the monkey on occasion, and he's got to be wracked with guilt and spill buckets of tears and shut his little factory down to be "worthy" to go on a mission. The cog-diss in the comparison is breathtaking in scope. Joseph Smith was a blatant and rampant adulterer who is completely excused by the membership of the church he founded (at least those who even know a thing about it) because they've bought into the lie that God sent his holy angel down to command Joseph to deflower the teenage daughters (and even wives) of his associates and supporters. Give me a freaking break. Oh yeah, and you wanted to argue about doctrine?

Yes, Seth, you are abolutely right. Joseph Smith was a sexaholic sex fiend who lusted after young women. Yes, seth, you are abolutely right, Joseph Smith was a horrible man of immense proportions. Yes, seth, now that you have applied the supreme critic word of 'cog-dis' to desribe the LDS experience, I can see that you are now towing the critic Party line. Did you have a graduation ceremony??

However, seth, as you know your interpretation of Joseph Smith can be wrong. And of course, you know also that the reasons that you embrace such ideas now is because you need to reaffirm your lack of faith in Joseph Smith and in the church. However, I can challenge you to post your post over on MAD if you haven't done so already. It would be interesting to see the reaction. But thanks for the speculations that you so willingly gave. but as you know, speculation or intretation does not get you to first base automatically. You need to prove your interpretation that Joseph Smith was a monster as you described. Good luck with your research into Joseph Smith's heart and into his intent! And are you sure that he had sexual relations with these women??