Why So Few Faithful?

[_grampa75]

I was browsing the threads here last week and couldn't help but wonder why there are so few faithful LDS people frequenting this board. We have a small handful of LDS posters who continue to post here, and a few posters in the middle who appear to honestly be objective about things, but for the most part the threads are self-congratulatory and self-indulgent anti-Mormon accusation and speculation. I admit that some of the issues are ones that I've wondered about myself, but upon further inspection the threads often fail to produce anything in the way of progress. Much of what is presented here is reactionary whining. We get it. Can we discuss something important?

There are very intelligent people here who have experience in many areas, but there are so few real investigations into anything incredibly relevant. I think that that lack of real discussion that is of value to both Mormons and non is a cause for so few LDS posters. The other cause, in my opinion, would be the antagonism toward, and lack of support for, opinions that are not in line with those of the proprietors and most outspoken posters on this board. Those outspoken people can often spoil a decent thread for others and reduce a poster's desire to respond.

My attendance here and at MAD has waned of late because of my rapidly shrinking free time, but I would love to see more LDS posters here, and I think the first thing that needs to happen is more intelligent discussions, less self-congratulation, and less bullying. Just my thoughts.

I agree with you 150%. What I would like to hear is how other religions besides the LDS believes. Or what their opinion might be on subjects like (Where did God come from) In LDS doctrine there is a teaching that gives you the impression that the very Eternal Father of heaven and earth had a beginning as God. He actually never had a beginning since all of came from the spirit entity known today as "Intelligence" Intelligence apparently never had any power common to human kind other than the power of mind. From that beginning a God of all creation sprang. So do you believe that God, when he first inherited a body of flesh and bone, as man has, could have been able to live a life that we might consider perfect today when faced with all the appetites, desires, and passions, that have become common to mankind?
Tell me, if you would be so kind; what Church you belong to and what is it about that Church or teachings of that Church that makes a person want to belong to it.
grampa75 Thanks

[_ldsguy]

Hi again ldsguy, am i a 'stalker' ;-) You said:

I think LDS, and any other human wants to feel understood and respected, and that simply doesn't happen in online message boards. (Bold added)

If yer looking for discussion on what we have in common, it is not that sentiment. Starting off as a "victim" already? ;-) Sorry, it was just too much of a temptation... But, i do now know You better... Warm regards, Roger

Victim? of not being understood and respected? We're all victims of that.

[_Roger Morrison]

Hi again ldsguy, am i a 'stalker' ;-) You said:

I think LDS, and any other human wants to feel understood and respected, and that simply doesn't happen in online message boards. (Bold added)

If yer looking for discussion on what we have in common, it is not that sentiment. Starting off as a "victim" already? ;-) Sorry, it was just too much of a temptation... But, i do now know You better... Warm regards, Roger

Victim? of not being understood and respected? We're all victims of that.

"Victim"??? Not a complex i carry... You said in another post, something to the effect of "God" being the source of personal empowerment??? Right! Never a victim, just one of billions dealing with reality, and its wonders! Being pushed into a gas-chamber might make me feel victimized; but to be misunderstood and not respected??? Warm regards, Roger

[_Blixa]

This is only my second post/second day here and the kind of debate I just read through is something I have yet to find in the morass of blah blah blah called "the Bloggernacle" that I've been wading through hoping to find issues like this being discussed in such completely serious way. The difference between the positions articulated by harmony and mak (and I can't say if they reflect either's overall woldview having only stumbled on this) defines how I see THE major divide im Mormon culture: mak's posts express what I always took to be the mainstream Mormon opinion and harmony's are in line with Mormons I've known who dared to take the religion at much of its own word (Juanita Brooks comes to mind: "Its as much my church as its theirs").

So, thanks.

[_harmony]

This is only my second post/second day here and the kind of debate I just read through is something I have yet to find in the morass of blah blah blah called "the Bloggernacle" that I've been wading through hoping to find issues like this being discussed in such completely serious way. The difference between the positions articulated by harmony and mak (and I can't say if they reflect either's overall woldview having only stumbled on this) defines how I see THE major divide I'm Mormon culture: mak's posts express what I always took to be the mainstream Mormon opinion and harmony's are in line with Mormons I've known who dared to take the religion at much of its own word (Juanita Brooks comes to mind: "Its as much my church as its theirs").

So, thanks.

Welcome, Blixa. Mak and I are on opposite sides of the same team. He tends to stick with the hard line iron rodders like Packer, while I'm more a Hugh B Brown type. We mostly get tangled up in our definitions for words like "sustain", "authority", and what it means to be a prophet.

[_Tommy]

Dear Mkklelen,

I hope I got your name right, it's quite a mouthful. We don't encourage the Saints to frequent message boards like this and "discuss" the gospel with detractors. These detractors are Heavenly Father's children and we love them, but they have lost their way, and in such a state, are tools of the adversary. We love them and invite them back. But we don't discuss sacred matters on their terms.

Satan loves debate. He loves discussion. He likes to qualify and complicate matters. But the Lord is not amused. There is a misunderstanding many the the Saints have concerning the war in Heaven. Some have come to believe a great discussion took place there - something like we see in American politics. That both Jesus and Satan presented their cases and we talked amongst ourselves concerning the merits of both. This is false. Christ presented the Father's plan. Satan, uninvited, interjected and was immediatly dealt with by the Father. His views were uninvited.

In the mission field we've often told the Elders, "You're here to teach, not to be taught." Missionaries enter a home and teach the gospel. They do not study the tenets of other faiths. And so it is with missionary work on all levels, including less active work and former member work. Your debates will never win converts as only the Spirit may do that. And the Spirit is not present where there is contention. And where there is contention, there is a great possibility for a member's good intentions to backfire and be drawn into apostasy himself. Do not underestimate Satan's power. He's been playing his game for much longer than you have, my son.

Amen.

[_maklelan]

Dear Mkklelen,

I hope I got your name right, it's quite a mouthful. We don't encourage the Saints to frequent message boards like this and "discuss" the gospel with detractors. These detractors are Heavenly Father's children and we love them, but they have lost their way, and in such a state, are tools of the adversary. We love them and invite them back. But we don't discuss sacred matters on their terms.

Satan loves debate. He loves discussion. He likes to qualify and complicate matters. But the Lord is not amused. There is a misunderstanding many the the Saints have concerning the war in Heaven. Some have come to believe a great discussion took place there - something like we see in American politics. That both Jesus and Satan presented their cases and we talked amongst ourselves concerning the merits of both. This is false. Christ presented the Father's plan. Satan, uninvited, interjected and was immediatly dealt with by the Father. His views were uninvited.

In the mission field we've often told the Elders, "You're here to teach, not to be taught." Missionaries enter a home and teach the gospel. They do not study the tenets of other faiths. And so it is with missionary work on all levels, including less active work and former member work. Your debates will never win converts as only the Spirit may do that. And the Spirit is not present where there is contention. And where there is contention, there is a great possibility for a member's good intentions to backfire and be drawn into apostasy himself. Do not underestimate Satan's power. He's been playing his game for much longer than you have, my son.

Amen.

No, you're one more in a long line of people who can't seem to spell my name. I'm surprised, however, that you don't remember me. I'm a good friends of Quinn's. Certainly you remember my brother from the Jazz-Mavs game. He was the one with the Purple hair. I understand the point you're trying to get across, and I agree with you. I have, however, helped a few people come to the gospel by way of message board. A group of Jehovah's Witnesses were actually baptized because of a number of discussions I had with one of them. That individual is in an elder's quorum presidency now. I seem to recall certain council that we share the gospel via any and all honorable means.

I frequent these boards more than anything to learn what others think and say, and while I do feel my participation on this board is not going to help anyone see beyond their prejudices (or heaven forbid, learn anything new), I enjoy the hearty debate, and I do occasionally learn something new.

By the way, Tommy, you misspelled "immediately," in addition to a number of other typographical, grammatical, and logical errors. You're much too old to be making all of these kinds of mistakes, they're common to people a fourth of your age, but your generation had a much different upbringing and training in English and typing. What gives?

[_grampa75]

I was browsing the threads here last week and couldn't help but wonder why there are so few faithful LDS people frequenting this board. We have a small handful of LDS posters who continue to post here, and a few posters in the middle who appear to honestly be objective about things, but for the most part the threads are self-congratulatory and self-indulgent anti-Mormon accusation and speculation. I admit that some of the issues are ones that I've wondered about myself, but upon further inspection the threads often fail to produce anything in the way of progress. Much of what is presented here is reactionary whining. We get it. Can we discuss something important?

There are very intelligent people here who have experience in many areas, but there are so few real investigations into anything incredibly relevant. I think that that lack of real discussion that is of value to both Mormons and non is a cause for so few LDS posters. The other cause, in my opinion, would be the antagonism toward, and lack of support for, opinions that are not in line with those of the proprietors and most outspoken posters on this board. Those outspoken people can often spoil a decent thread for others and reduce a poster's desire to respond.

My attendance here and at MAD has waned of late because of my rapidly shrinking free time, but I would love to see more LDS posters here, and I think the first thing that needs to happen is more intelligent discussions, less self-congratulation, and less bullying. Just my thoughts.

I personally believe that not too many LDS would post here at this site for the reason that we cannot help anyone to come to the knowledge of the truth. We could astound people if we were to meet and face one another face to face and open with a word of prayer and invite the presense of the Holy Spirit. I have gained the knowledge that the Holy Spirit, apparently, is not present on the internet to the view of sinner and Saint. It just doesn't work that way.

I was a seventy for 18 years and witnessed the Holy Spirit convert quite a few people and give me answers to questions that people asked me. So, by this way of thinking, and the lack of people sharing their own knowledge or even informing us of which Church they have espoused, it would not seem possible for an LDS person to teach anyone what is true or what isn't. I even asked if anyone would want to know the cause of the Tribulation and how a person could survive it. But most people don't particularly want to know how to teach their own children how to survive in regards to how the scriptures inform us how this is possible. I'm sure you can see an LDS person's dilemma.

grampa75

[_Coggins7]

I was browsing the threads here last week and couldn't help but wonder why there are so few faithful LDS people frequenting this board. We have a small handful of LDS posters who continue to post here, and a few posters in the middle who appear to honestly be objective about things, but for the most part the threads are self-congratulatory and self-indulgent anti-Mormon accusation and speculation. I admit that some of the issues are ones that I've wondered about myself, but upon further inspection the threads often fail to produce anything in the way of progress. Much of what is presented here is reactionary whining. We get it. Can we discuss something important?

There are very intelligent people here who have experience in many areas, but there are so few real investigations into anything incredibly relevant. I think that that lack of real discussion that is of value to both Mormons and non is a cause for so few LDS posters. The other cause, in my opinion, would be the antagonism toward, and lack of support for, opinions that are not in line with those of the proprietors and most outspoken posters on this board. Those outspoken people can often spoil a decent thread for others and reduce a poster's desire to respond.

My attendance here and at MAD has waned of late because of my rapidly shrinking free time, but I would love to see more LDS posters here, and I think the first thing that needs to happen is more intelligent discussions, less self-congratulation, and less bullying. Just my thoughts.

Mak, exactly my thoughts on the ZLMB board which, some years back, had a pretty active cohort of faithful defenders of the gospel mixed up with the usual suspects, but which, over time, morphed into pretty much what this forum is at present. I spent many days alone or with one or two others getting gang banged in a dark ally only to finally realize the futility of being Clarence Thomas at an ACLU convention.

Years ago, you had DCP, Robert Millet, Louis Midgley, and other FARMS and FAIR people, and Kerry Shirts and everyone else in fairly well balanced knock down, drag out debates that, for all the heat they generated at times, could be quite educational and stimulating. At some point, however, the board became almost completely dominated by people like Rollo and Shades, LSD (Jersey Girl), Harmony, Scratch, Who Knows, Guy, Fortigurn, Vegas, EAllusion, and a host of others. I started to feel, after a while, like Jimmy Wang Yu in one of those old early Seventies Kung Fu movies; one guy alone fighting about fifty other guys with hatchets and big knives swarming from all sides.

I think the primary reason most of those people just left after a while was that they just gave up trying to engage in serious, critical discussion with people who, for the most part, were not interested in that kind of discussion and whose minds were not open to any other possibilities other than fear and loathing of all things Mormon. We see that here as well.

I was at ZLMB for years and the discussions we are having ad nauseum here are mirror images of the very same discussions that have perennial value to a certain kind of mind; Blacks and the Priesthood, woman in the Church and the Church in the context of modern Feminist ideological concepts, Polygamy, Polyandry, the MMM, DNA, the poor, courageous and persecuted dissident liberal LDS intellectuals, "sanitized" church history, and sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex. Premarital sex, sexual freedom, homosexuality, homosexual rights, homosexual marriage, masturbation, and, of course, gospel standards of chastity, modesty, and personal appearance, which seem to be the most hated and loathed of all things Mormon save Boyd K. Packer himself.

My experience on some prominent Yahoo email lists follow the same general pattern. These forums are dominated by people who are primarily secular, liberal as to political and social leanings, and visceraly hostile to the church, its culture, its people, and its teachings.

No wonder MAD keeps banning these usual suspects, they're trying to avoid the colonization and domination of that forum by the same coterie of dyed in the wool gadflies who aren't concerned with exploring Mormonism in a serious critical way but only with criticism.

[_Yoda]

No wonder MAD keeps banning these usual suspects, their trying to avoid the colonization and domination of that forum by the same coterie of dyed in the wool gadflies who aren't concerned with exploring Mormonism in a serious critical was but only with criticism.

If that's the way you feel, Coggins, then why do you post here?

I'm not asking this to be mean-spirited, or say that you shouldn't post here. I'm just honestly curious as to why you do, if you feel this strongly.