Sethbag wrote:This is a really interesting question, and to be honest, I really don't know what I think about it. I simply don't know.
We only had one kid, and she's 14 now. I baptised her six years ago, and it wasn't a problem because I was a believer.
The next potential problem with respect to church ordinances and my daughter now is in the intermediate future when she's old enough to potentially get married. The question, of course, is whether she'll still be a believer or not, or want to marry a believer, in the temple, or not, etc. If my daughter turns out a believer and wants to get married in the temple, it'll be pretty tough, but I don't think I'll go. That's assuming I'm even still a member in a few years. I'm still a member now, though I don't believe, but I am not sure that will always be the case.
Are you a member in good standing? I mean a full tithe payer? If not, how could you go? Would you pretend for a while so you could get a TR ?
Obviously, if this were to come up, there'd be enough notice to "get with the program" so I could answer all the questions, including the tithing question. But I (right now) don't think I would do it. I'd still be lying on the questions about my belief.
A lot of critics have suggested that one of the reasons for the one year (in the US and other places) mandatory wait for a sealing after one has been married civilly is to try to get people who are inactive back into enough activity (including paying tithing) to get the TR so they can go in.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Hi Runtu, another opportunity to experience a father & son (family) thing. Why wouldn't the Bishop say, "OK"? I'm sure you're "worthy"... Church attendance, if you go or not, and the other check-list stuff have little to do with anything but record keeping. You obviously haven't been X'd or Dis-fellowed.
One doesn't have to "Believe" to enjoy. It's like X-mas & Santa Clause... THE big issues, as someone else mentioned, are Priest Craft and Temple Marriage...
Those IMSCO are times when one faces LDS barbarism and unconscienced authoritarian cultism. Which in fact destroys their Spiritual integrity. They then stand alone as religious symbols of Incorporated un-Christian bigotry, hypocrasy and elitism... But who's, or what's perfect, eh?
I'm with you on yer decision, Bro... Make it a really big weekend & go Camping too... Warm regards, Roger
Some Schmo wrote:This is a rhetorical question, Runtu, so I don't need a response (although if you wanted to, that's cool too):
If you don't care what others think, why did you start a thread about it?
I thought about that for a long time last night. I guess I was still going back and forth, and still am. So it wasn't correct to say I don't care what others think. I think I was looking for a little support because I honestly have very mixed feelings about the whole thing. Yesterday I was watching the second half of the PBS broadcast, and I choked up when Tal said that about how it's not worth it if it isn't true. Maybe my first instinct to say no was correct. I don't know. It hasn't been an easy decision.
Some Schmo wrote:This is a rhetorical question, Runtu, so I don't need a response (although if you wanted to, that's cool too):
If you don't care what others think, why did you start a thread about it?
I thought about that for a long time last night. I guess I was still going back and forth, and still am. So it wasn't correct to say I don't care what others think. I think I was looking for a little support because I honestly have very mixed feelings about the whole thing. Yesterday I was watching the second half of the PBS broadcast, and I choked up when Tal said that about how it's not worth it if it isn't true. Maybe my first instinct to say no was correct. I don't know. It hasn't been an easy decision.
Well, I feel for you, bud. Clearly, this is a difficult challenge for you and the fact that you seem to be agonizing over the decision demonstrates how much love you really do have for your son.
Good on ya, man.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
Some Schmo wrote:This is a rhetorical question, Runtu, so I don't need a response (although if you wanted to, that's cool too):
If you don't care what others think, why did you start a thread about it?
I thought about that for a long time last night. I guess I was still going back and forth, and still am. So it wasn't correct to say I don't care what others think. I think I was looking for a little support because I honestly have very mixed feelings about the whole thing. Yesterday I was watching the second half of the PBS broadcast, and I choked up when Tal said that about how it's not worth it if it isn't true. Maybe my first instinct to say no was correct. I don't know. It hasn't been an easy decision.
\
It probably boils down to what everyone's expectations are at this point. If the whole family (parents, g-parents, wife, son) think that you're doing the baptism - then i'd say it's too late to change your mind. That would end up causing more harm than it's worth at this point.
That's why everyone will know that I'm not doing it - months beforehand. By the time it rolls around, it won't be a big deal.
Good luck. And no hard feelings from yesterday? :)
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
Who Knows wrote:It probably boils down to what everyone's expectations are at this point. If the whole family (parents, g-parents, wife, son) think that you're doing the baptism - then I'd say it's too late to change your mind. That would end up causing more harm than it's worth at this point.
That's why everyone will know that I'm not doing it - months beforehand. By the time it rolls around, it won't be a big deal.
Good luck. And no hard feelings from yesterday? :)
Of course no hard feelings. Nobody said anything that I wasn't already thinking. At one point I was ready to tell my wife that I wouldn't give permission for him to get baptized, but that wouldn't have done anything but caused even more tension. In the end, I hope he will understand why I am doing this.
Some Schmo wrote:This is a rhetorical question, Runtu, so I don't need a response (although if you wanted to, that's cool too):
If you don't care what others think, why did you start a thread about it?
I thought about that for a long time last night. I guess I was still going back and forth, and still am. So it wasn't correct to say I don't care what others think. I think I was looking for a little support because I honestly have very mixed feelings about the whole thing. Yesterday I was watching the second half of the PBS broadcast, and I choked up when Tal said that about how it's not worth it if it isn't true. Maybe my first instinct to say no was correct. I don't know. It hasn't been an easy decision.
Runtu--
You know that you have my support. I still think that performing the baptism is the right decision. If that is what's going to make your son happy, then it's the right thing. He is the most important part of this equation at this point.
Is the baptism tomorrow?
Congrats to your son, and have a wonderful family day!
You know that you have my support. I still think that performing the baptism is the right decision. If that is what's going to make your son happy, then it's the right thing. He is the most important part of this equation at this point.
Is the baptism tomorrow?
Congrats to your son, and have a wonderful family day!
:)
Yeah, it's tomorrow. I have half a mind to never go back to church again after tomorrow. I really have felt everything from a belief that I'm doing the right thing to the terrible feeling that I'm just being a complete hypocrite. I wonder if that's the "stupor of thought" spoken of? :-)
But thanks for the kindness. It's not going to be an easy day tomorrow.
liz3564 wrote:I still think that performing the baptism is the right decision. If that is what's going to make your son happy, then it's the right thing.
I disagree. Doing "whatever makes the son happy" shouldn't be your gauge. Like I said yesterday, we often do things for our kids that don't 'make them happy', but we know that it's best for them in the long run. Making them clean their rooms, brush their teeth, pick up their toys, give them shots when they're sick, take them to the dentist, etc. - none of that makes them happy - but we realize that we're teaching them valuable lessons that they will hopefully utilize and appreciate later on in life.
So - i believe you shouldn't do what makes the son happy right now - but what will be best for him in the long run.
He is the most important part of this equation at this point.
Agreed! :)
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
Runtu wrote:Yeah, it's tomorrow. I have half a mind to never go back to church again after tomorrow. I really have felt everything from a belief that I'm doing the right thing to the terrible feeling that I'm just being a complete hypocrite. I wonder if that's the "stupor of thought" spoken of? :-)
But thanks for the kindness. It's not going to be an easy day tomorrow.
You're not being a hypocrite. You're a father who loves his son. Period. Enjoy your family, go out for a nice family lunch somewhere afterwards, and eat plenty of good Texas Mexican food for me! :)
Hang in there! You'll be in my thoughts and prayers.