Profound insights from MAD on Gay Marriage

[_bcspace]

Besides the documented dangers of the lifestyle, it all comes down to the fact that there is no compelling reason for gays to marry.

[_Bond...James Bond]

Besides the documented dangers of the lifestyle, it all comes down to the fact that there is no compelling reason for gays to marry.

What dangers and where are they documented?

[_Runtu]

Besides the documented dangers of the lifestyle, it all comes down to the fact that there is no compelling reason for gays to marry.

What dangers and where are they documented?

Seems to me that marriage increases the likelihood of monogamy, which by definition reduces the dangers. That would seem a compelling reason to me.

[_Livingstone22]

Besides the documented dangers of the lifestyle, it all comes down to the fact that there is no compelling reason for gays to marry.

What is your definition of "compelling"? Hetrosexuals have no compelling reason either. My brother and his girlfriend have been happily together for 11 years, and they have no plans of marrying.

Also, what are the "dangers" of the lifestyle that aren't equally possible in hetrosexual lifestyles?

[Guest]

Seems to me that marriage increases the likelihood of monogamy, which by definition reduces the dangers. That would seem a compelling reason to me.

I think you know already that marriage does not keep people monogamous. Given the fact that in homosexual marriages divorce rates are 1.5-2.5 times higher than average, it doesn't work. In addition.....

The cheating ratio of ‘married’ gay males, given enough time, approaches 100%…Many gay lovers, bowing to the inevitable, agree to an ‘open relationship,’ for which there are as many sets of ground rules as there are couples. Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen, After the Ball (New York: Doubleday, 1989) 330.

Gay publications themselves put the lie to the monogamy argument by showing that monogamy is incompatible with the lifestyle. For example...

Heterosexuals, it seems, simply do not know how to pick up total strangers in the street and have uncomplicated animal sex with them. The world would undoubtedly be a happier place if they did. Certainly the den of depravity where I found myself at 3am was a considerably happier place. I had already had uncomplicated animal sex with two attractive men – at least they looked pretty attractive in the dark – and was hot on the trail of number three. I did not expect to marry them, fall in love with them or even find out their names. All around me groans and grunts indicated that a thoroughly happy new year was being had by all. Lance Spurr, “Sexless in the city,” B.News, 3 January 2002, 8.

What dangers and where are they documented?

In numerous places.....

As Australian government statistics have made quite plain, it is homosexual activity which accounts for the majority of HIV cases. More specifically, 94% of people known to be HIV positive are men, and at least 85% of cases of AIDS in Australia are attributed to male homosexual or bisexual contact. The truth is, in Australia in particular, and the West in general, AIDS is a homosexual disease. Indeed, back in 1981 when it was first being recognised in America, AIDS was called GRID: Gay Related Immunodeficiency Disease. It was only after protest from the homosexual community that the name was changed to AIDS (Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome). Lawrence McNamee and Brian McNamee, AIDS: The Nation’s First Politically Protected Disease (La Habra, Ca.: National Medical Legal Publishing House, 1988) 5

The obituaries from the non-homosexual newspapers were similar to U.S. averages for longevity: the median age of death of married men was seventy-five, 80 percent died old (65 or older); for unmarried men it was fifty-seven, 32 percent died old; for married women it was seventy-nine, 85 percent died old; for unmarried women it was seventy-one, 60 percent died old.
For the 6,574 homosexual deaths, the median age of death if AIDS was the cause was thirty-nine irrespective of whether or not the individual had a Long Time Sexual Partner (LTSP), 1 percent died old. For those 829 who died of non-AIDS causes the median age of death was forty-two (41 for those 315 with a LTSP and 43 for those 514 without) and less than 9 percent died old. Homosexuals more frequently met a violent end from accidental death, traffic death, suicide, and murder than men in general. The 163 lesbians registered a median age of death of forty-four (20% died old) and exhibited high rates of violent death and cancer as compared to women in general.
Old homosexuals appear to have been proportionately less numerous than their non-homosexual counterparts in the scientific literature from 1858 to 1993. The pattern of early death evident in the homosexual obituaries is consistent with the pattern exhibited in the published surveys of homosexuals and intravenous drug abusers. Homosexuals may have experienced a short lifespan for the last 140 years; AIDS has apparently reduced it about 10 percent. Paul Cameron, W. L. Playfair, and S. Wellum, “The Longevity of Homosexuals: Before and after the AIDS Epidemic” Omega: Journal of Death and Dying 29/3 (1994) 249-72.

Paul Cameron has demonstrated a disproportionality between homosexuals and the rape and murder of children....

·Of the 90 news stories where the child was raped and murdered (0.47% of the unique child molestation stories), 40% involved homosexual molestation.
·Of the 95 perpetrators in these 90 stories, at least 43% engaged in homosexuality. These included 39 men, a boy, and a woman who all engaged in homosexuality, and 47 men and 7 boys who engaged in heterosexuality with victims.
·Of the 217 victims, at least 68% were victimized by homosexual perpetrators, and at least 67% were boys.
·Boys were also mutilated in the two stories involving mutilation. Furthermore, both multiple perpetrators and multiple victims were associated with homosexuality.
·In the three stories where two or more killers were implicated, the rapes were homosexual.
·In 69% of the 13 stories involving more than one victim, the perpetrator engaged in homosexuality.
·Another 11 stories involved a charge of attempted murder. In 64% of those cases, the perpetrator engaged in homosexuality.

We do not mean to judge individual homosexuals nor to infer that all homosexuals are involved in the kinds of activity described above. But the evidence strongly points to the conclusion that homosexuals have a disproportionate tendency toward the molestation, rape and murder of children. Paul Cameron, “Homosexual Rape and Murder of Children” Journal of the Family Research Institute 18/1 (Feb 2003).

The most recent twin study (2002), by Bearman and Bruckner, examines for the first time a large, representative sample of twins – both identical and fraternal – for sexual desire. They conclude that no evidence that homosexual desire is inherited: “the pattern of concordance (similarity across pairs) of same sex preference for sibling pairs does not suggest genetic influence independent of social context.” P. S. Bearman and H. Bruckner, “Opposite-sex twins and adolescent same-sex attraction” American Journal of Sociology 107 (2002) 1179-1205.

People who are in any kind of homosexual relationship are far more prone to domestic violence with their partners.
Claire Renzetti, Violent Betrayal: Partner Abuse in Lesbian Relationships (Newbury Park, CA: Sage Publications, Inc., 1992); Diane Bush, “Violent Betrayal: Partner Abuse in Lesbian Relationships.” Contemporary Sociology 22/3 (May 1993) 355-356; Vallerie E. Coleman, “Lesbian Battering: The Relationship between Personality and the Perpetration of Violence” Violence and Victims 9/2 (Summer 1994) 139-152; Emma Jane Cross, “Lesbians Talk Violent Relationships” Women’s Studies International Forum 19/3 (May-June 1996) 345-346; J. Michael Cruz and Juanita M Firestone, “Exploring violence and abuse in gay male relationships” Violence and Victims (1998); Claire Dandeneau, “Violence in Gay and Lesbian Domestic Partnerships” Sex Roles 36 (Mar 1997) 431-432; Ned.A. Farley, “Survey of Factors Contributing to Gay and Lesbian Domestic Violence” Journal of Gay and Lesbian Social Services 4/1 (1996) 35-42; L. Kevin Hamberger, “Intervention in Gay Male Intimate Violence Requires Coordinated Efforts on Multiple Levels” Journal of Gay and Lesbian Social Services 4/1 (1996) 83-91; Arlene Istar, “Couple Assessment: Identifying and Intervening in Domestic Violence in Lesbian Relationships” Journal of Gay and Lesbian Social Services 4/1 (1996) 93-106; Mary P. Koss, “Men Who Beat the Men Who Love Them: Battered Gay Men and Domestic Violence” Journal of Sex Education and Therapy 19/2 (Summer 1993) 148-150; Monica A. Landolt and Donald G. Dutton, “Power and Personality: An Analysis of Gay Male Intimate Abuse” Sex Roles 37 (Sept 1997) 335-359; Patrick Letellier, “Twin Epidemics: Domestic Violence and HIV Infection among Gay and Bisexual Men” Journal of Gay and Lesbian Social Services 4/1 (1996) 69-81; Gwat Yong Lie and Sabrina Intimate Gentlewarrier, “Violence in Lesbian Relationships: Discussion of Survey Findings and Practice Implications” Journal of Social Service Research 15 (1991) 41-59; Lettie L. Lockhart and Barbara W. White, “Letting Out the Secret: Violence in Lesbian Relationships” Journal of Interpersonal Violence 9/4 (Dec 1994) 469-492; Liz Margolies and Elaine Leeder, “Violence at the Door: Treatment of Lesbian Batterers” Violence Against Women (June 1995) 139-157; Becky Marrujo and Mary Kreger, “Definition of Roles in Abusive Lesbian Relationships” Journal of Gay and Lesbian Social Services 4 (1996) 23-33; Claire M. Renzetti, “Violence in Lesbian Relationships: A Preliminary Analysis of Causal Factors” Journal of Interpersonal Violence (Dec 1988) 381-399; Sotirios Sarantakos, “Violence in Gay and Lesbian Domestic Relationships” Journal of Family Studies 3 (Oct 1997) 258-259; Rebecca Schilit and Gwat Yong Lie, “Battered Gay Men and Domestic Violence” British Journal of Criminology 33/3 (Summer 1993) 449-450; Lisa M. Waldner Haugrud and Linda Vaden Gratch, “Victimization and perpetration rates of violence in gay and lesbian relationships: gender issues explored” Violence and Victims 12/2 (1997) 173-184 Battered Gay Men and Domestic Violence” British Journal of Criminology 33/3 (Summer 1993) 449-450; Lisa M. Waldner Haugrud and Linda Vaden Gratch, “Victimization and perpetration rates of violence in gay and lesbian relationships: gender issues explored” Violence and Victims 12/2 (1997) 173-184; Wayne F. Winters, “Men Who Beat the Men Who Love Them: Battered Gay Men and Domestic Violence” Violence and Victims 8/1 (Spring 1993) 85-86.

They indicate that problems of gender identity and sexuality might be greater for children raised by homosexual parents than any of the studies recognize. Judith Stacey and Timothy Biblarz, “(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?” American Sociological Review 66 (2001) 159-183.

etc. etc. There is much much more including drug abuse, suicide, mental health problems even in areas of the world where homosexuality is considered normative.

[_bcspace]

What is your definition of "compelling"?

The possibility of raising children is the only compelling reason to marry. Homosexuals can't naturally have children (by their own definition), therefore are not suited to raise children. In any homosexual marriage, the male and female role models are missing.

[_barrelomonkeys]

What is your definition of "compelling"?

The possibility of raising children is the only compelling reason to marry.

So couples that can't have children should just divorce or not bother being married?

[_bcspace]

The possibility of raising children is the only compelling reason to marry.

So couples that can't have children should just divorce or not bother being married?

Read my statement again more carefully. It does not even imply that or logically follow.

[_barrelomonkeys]

The possibility of raising children is the only compelling reason to marry.

So couples that can't have children should just divorce or not bother being married?

Read my statement again more carefully. It does not even imply that or logically follow.

The possibility of raising children is the only compelling reason to marry.

Hmm... so the only compelling reason to marry is the possibility of raising children? How am I misreading your statement. That suggests to me that couples that do not want to raise children (or other possibilities that may factor into not being able to have children) don't have a compelling reason to marry.

You tell me how I misread what you wrote.

[_Livingstone22]

The possibility of raising children is the only compelling reason to marry.

So couples that can't have children should just divorce or not bother being married?

Read my statement again more carefully. It does not even imply that or logically follow.

Well, some of the things you said in your long post are ridiculous. Just because homosexuality has a high incidence of these things ("high" being used liberally here), why should all people of that demographic group be prejudged to do them? Statistically, Hispanics and African-Americans have a much higher probability of committing violent crimes. Should you assume that they will? Are Hispanics and African-Americans intrinsically programed to be bad? I don't think so. Perhaps we should judge each individual on their character, not on their demographic group.

I am a homosexual, but I love children--I couldn't ever imagine hurting one. I could never hit anyone, no less someone that I loved. I don't have AIDS, and I won't do anything in which I could get it. I would never do things that would hurt my body. I very much disagree with anal sex, for instance: it's just unhealthy; of course putting the Q-tip in your inner ear is too, but not because of some natural moral decree, just because it is.

If I were to have a relationship with another man (especially a sexual one), I would sure like to enjoy the permenence of a marital commitment....but hey, you don't have to listen to me; apparently you've already judged what kind of person I probably am.