Current GA Being Accused of Child Abuse; the 12 Ignore It

[_Chap]

Allegations like this are quite serious and need to be investigated seriously. There is a due process to work through to establish guilt, and it isn't through postings on an internet board.

I tend to agree with that.

[_AmyJo]

I find Karren's claims more credible precisely because the likes of Tobin questions his sincerity and lampoons anyone who believes he is telling the truth.

I find his story very credible. Here is a man who makes his livelihood selling financial services. His reputation is everything. He isn't going to stake his career on falsifying something as serious as a pedophilia claim against his grown daughter's abuser.

His daughter asked him to come forward, according to his testimony now.

I'm as interested as anyone else in learning more facts. As it stands I find his story not grounded on sensationalism but some very real events that occurred while he was married to Mickelson's daughter. He isn't the type to make baseless claims. His name is being dragged through the mud of Salt Lake City's spin department just as it has done a thousand times before when a cases reaches a high degree of media scrutiny.

They pull out the stops to defame, crucify, and slander the accuser. Whether it was Sonia Johnson, The Tanners, Steve Benson, Valeen Tippetts Avery, and many many others in the annals of LDS history. It stops at nothing to destroy lives and reputations of its saints and former members whenever they attempt to right a wrong. Or to correct history.

This is nothing new: the spin coming out of Utah directed now at Mr. Karran. It is more of the same dirty BS tactics I've seen over and over for as long as I can remember.

There was the case of pedophilia years ago by another apostle's (of the Q12) son who was not vindicated and his wife, who molested lots of little children while in their care during church activities. The son later committed suicide rather than face the music of LDS church recrimination, and his own family shaming him. He needed help badly, but messed up countless little children's lives in the process.

That was swept neatly and quietly under the rug by the same people who would do likewise with Mr. Karran's claims, and it nearly did until now that he's coming forward that his daughter has reached maturity. So time will tell where this goes. But I am not dismissing his claims as tabloid or sensationalism. Because I know all too well the sexual abuse that has gone on inside the church and the coverups and the scapegoating of the victims. In this case it was a six year old chil

There are so many others that will never see the light of day. I commend Mr. Karran for having the courage to come forward and speak his conscience.

I hope some good comes of it, even if just shedding another high beam on the dirty hidden secrets behind closed doors of some GA who would shame gays and deny them and their children membership in the church and scapegoat apostles children and grandchildren as sacrificial lambs on the altar of the GA can do no wrong, and when they do they will cover it up.

Note that Mickelson was officially retired soon after the Karran's divorce was finalized. Aren't most high 70's serve for life? Not him apparently. Doesn't the timing beg the question why?

For all the victims of sexual abuse by predators in the church, I hope this case gets the attention it deserves. And I hope it deserves the merit that Karran has given it. Either way, it brings an important discussion to the table of sexual abuse, coverups, and corruption at the highest levels of church hierarchy. It brings the discussion out of the shadows into the light of day.

I would hope to see the discussion continue rather than the personal attacks by Tobin of my credibility because I supported Karran coming out here and his daughter. That takes a hell of a lot of courage in my opinion for him to have done that. Not for Tobin to attack me because I'm lending my support to someone who alleges sexual abuse by a pedophile. I'm not judging Karran, I'm supporting him and his daughter for now.

I'm not on trial here. Why on earth would Tobin make this thread about me? I had several comments, the last preceding Tobin's degrading remarks was just a copy and paste from Karran's Facebook page that he will be providing more backup material in the coming days.

Sela ve. I'm not worried about it. I just care. I was a victim of sexual abuse as a former Mormon. And I was told by a LDS counselor at the time that it was my fault because I asked for it. (I was a victim of incest as a child.) It sounds all too familiar to me the assertion by Mickelson as he scapegoated his six year old granddaughter that she "asked" for it when she sat on her grandfather's lap. Yeah. Sure. Right.

Tobin, go to hell.

[_Lemmie]

Allegations like this are quite serious and need to be investigated seriously. There is a due process to work through to establish guilt, and it isn't through postings on an internet board.

I tend to agree with that.

And there are children involved, even more reason to allow due process and maintain some privacy for them if possible.

[_kairos]

My first impression is to believe Karren. Is there some sensationalism going on? probably. Having worked directly with men and women coming out of decades of sexual abuse by catholic priests, i know that the church hangs on for dear life trying to vindicate the priest. Records show bishops give the benefit of the doubt and believe almost anything the perps say UNTIL the evidence becomes overwhelming and even then the standard procedure was to hide the priest in another parish, send him overseas or retire him into the catholic equivalent of the fbi witness protection program with a warning to the perp-"don't do this again!" AArrrrgggh!

I would definitely believe the woman involved unless there is a huge amount of "evidence" that she is fakiong it and in it for the money-that is almost never the case- why make an allegation like this unless it happened?"

just postulatin!
k

[_Mary]

God help, us, if Tobin holds any position of leadership in the church or family services.

[_Tobin]

God help, us, if Tobin holds any position of leadership in the church or family services.

Why? Because I believe Mr. Karren is a liar and full of it? Or that I'm not willing to put up with unsubstantiated and slanderous charges?

Mary - how would you feel if I went around claiming you are a whore and sell yourself on the corner each night? Are baseless charges to be believed just because?

[_Mary]

If he is lying he should have his ass sued. If he is telling the truth then his daughter needs both justice and support. Childhood sexual abuse is a heinous crime from which many never recover.

It looks like the Catholic Church is now recommending mandatory reporting to get this insidious evil out of the box. Hopefully the LDS church will put the welfare of victims (which I am sure it does in many cases) above anything else, and that has to include the reporting of a crime. (in my opinion)

[_Mary]

Where the perpetrator refuses to acknowledge or admit guilt, childhood sexual abuse can be difficult to prosecute. The witness and victims are basically put on trial. It is a horrendous process. You can have six witnesses claiming abuse happened and it's up to them to prove guilt. If the prosecution can destroy their character and reliability they will. That's their job.

I think that's why (if this guy is reliable in the central claims)he is using the media. It's what the Boston Globe did right?

[_The Erotic Apologist]

Don't know about you, but I am really digging that picture of Blixa in the helmet right next to LDSfaqs.

I've always kind of pictured Blixa as more like this...

[_Dr Exiled]

I think it is safe to say that more needs to be discovered in this case. The video leaves open a lot of questions and obviously is one-sided. Additionally, Richard Packham posted on the recovery from Mormonism site an interesting bit that seems to discount the abuse allegations. http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1770837