Would Abraham have done it if God hadn't told him to do so? It was being done under the auspices of God's will. It becomes a matter of whether or not in this case one believes that: 1. God exists. 2. God commanded Abraham to do something.
Regards, MG
I notice you want to avoid the issue of how evil this story is. If God exists and is so powerful I'm sure he could give and take any life he/she wants to.
The funny thing MG is you are old enough to probably remember Oral Roberts saying God told him he had to raise millions or he would be killed by God. I suspect you didn't take his claim seriously for a second. Funny how we take seriously really bad claims of those we believe in.
Would Abraham have done it if God hadn't told him to do so? It was being done under the auspices of God's will. It becomes a matter of whether or not in this case one believes that: 1. God exists. 2. God commanded Abraham to do something.
Regards, MG
I notice you want to avoid the issue of how evil this story is. If God exists and is so powerful I'm sure he could give and take any life he/she wants to.
I would agree with you if I believed wholeheartedly that the story didn't potentially include God as an actual participant in the narrative. The question, again, is whether or not God has the right to take and give life. And if, in this instance, that is what we see going on...with an important lesson learned by Abraham.
Are we open to the idea that God has the right to take and give life? And that there is a system in play for the benefit of those that are caught in the middle with unfortunate results? Go back to an earlier post on this thread to see this idea fleshed out a bit. At least I think it was this thread. I've been active today on three different threads. Stormy outside. Recuperating from ear surgery.
Shulem wrote:I don't believe in god and I'm not mourning today. . . .
Enjoy it while you can, because it won’t last very long: “and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.” (2 Nephi 27:11.)
mentalgymnast wrote: I would agree with you if I believed wholeheartedly that the story didn't potentially include God as an actual participant in the narrative.
Thank you providing the problem above. They all think God is potentially involved in their story. That you miss this just tells us the evil of this story and how much damage it causes. God has to be a Moron to not see why asking for blind obedience to do anything asked is just plain wrong and stupid.
Themis wrote: God has to be a Moron to not see why asking for blind obedience to do anything asked is just plain wrong and stupid.
Forsooth, I think you simplify to much in order to meet your own agenda.
Again,the question is, whether or not God has the right to take and give life. And whether or not, in the instance of Abraham and Isaac, this was the important lesson being taught to Abraham and his son. Not that obedience wasn't part of the equation. Along with the 'type and shadow' of God's giving up his only beloved Son.
mentalgymnast wrote: With the caveat that the marriage couldn't/wouldn't be performed by an LDS Bishop or in an LDS Temple. So in that respect, you're right. God wouldn't condone marriage to your boyfriend within the confines/realm of activity in the LDS Church.
But the fact is, He isn't going to...and never could...restrict what you do outside of the church.
My guess is that God knew how things were going to go with the marriage debate/outcome. The church wanted to take a stand for what it would or wouldn't accept as the norm within the confines of the church and the blessings it offers to those that obey the commandments.
Regards, MG
Mormons are enemies to gay marriage and gay love. There is nothing you can say to fix that or crawl out from under the attacks your church has made against gays. You too are my enemy.
I hope hurricane Irma destroys the temples in Florida. I hope Mormons are denied the opportunity to marry in those temples for a long time.
Your response does not lend itself to a productive/civil conversation and/or discussion. It does lead us down a road that ultimately leads to a cul-de-sac/dead end where we find ourselves going round and round wasting each other's time.
MG I don't think that it accomplishes anything to 'diss' God. I'm sure there are some underlying psychological reasons to do so, but other than that...it's rather a fruitless/non-productive enterprise, in my opinion.
It accomplishes exactly as much as praying to it.
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
mentalgymnast wrote: With the caveat that the marriage couldn't/wouldn't be performed by an LDS Bishop or in an LDS Temple. So in that respect, you're right. God wouldn't condone marriage to your boyfriend within the confines/realm of activity in the LDS Church.
But the fact is, He isn't going to...and never could...restrict what you do outside of the church.
My guess is that God knew how things were going to go with the marriage debate/outcome. The church wanted to take a stand for what it would or wouldn't accept as the norm within the confines of the church and the blessings it offers to those that obey the commandments.
Regards, MG
Mormons are enemies to gay marriage and gay love. There is nothing you can say to fix that or crawl out from under the attacks your church has made against gays. You too are my enemy.
I hope hurricane Irma destroys the temples in Florida. I hope Mormons are denied the opportunity to marry in those temples for a long time.
By the way, I hate you.
Come on Shulem....... take the high road buddy. Don't hate anyone.
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
Shulem wrote:I don't believe in god and I'm not mourning today. . . .
Enjoy it while you can, because it won’t last very long: “and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.” (2 Nephi 27:11.
I will enjoy my life to the end just as many others have done and are now doing. Happiness and joy are mine.
It gave me great satisfaction choking the life out of the Holy Ghost, wrapping my hand around his neck, and in effect, killing it. Yes, I killed the Holy Ghost. I slew it and I am free and able to live life and achieve the full measure of my creation.
If your god tries to burn me with fire or harm me, I'll jump him and choke him with my bear hands. I'll bash his head in with his own rod! I'll rip his robe off and expose his naked body before all the angels standing about his throne. Then, I'll circumcise him and let him see how he likes it.