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Re: My Interview with Brian Hauglid is Up!
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:01 pm
by _Shulem
consiglieri wrote: โTue Jul 07, 2020 5:41 pm
I sincerely apologize for that Shulem. We had scheduled a two hour interview, and by the time we were approaching the three hour mark, I decided we needed to call it a day.
No problem. I totally get that. I was glad to see that you warmed things up and just kind of chatted about things in general. It wasn't until about minute 55 when things started taking aim at the authenticity of the Book of Abraham production. It gave Brian a perfect chance to just relax and go with the flow.
It's all good.
U did great. You'll get another donation. Don't worry.
lol
Re: My Interview with Brian Hauglid is Up!
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:04 pm
by _consiglieri
LOL!
I agree with you that all of John Gee's obfuscations hit a brick wall when it comes to the Facsimile translations.
I am sorry I wasn't savvy enough to mention that during the interview!
Re: My Interview with Brian Hauglid is Up!
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:56 pm
by _Kishkumen
Physics Guy wrote: โTue Jul 07, 2020 8:39 am
Hauglid is apparently a 66-year-old Associate Professor after 21 years on BYU faculty. Is there something unusual about him not having reached the full Professor rank?
Maybe my understanding of the American academic career path is fading after all this time in the quite different German system but I thought it was normal to be promoted from Assistant to Associate after six years (though at least a few places have an eight-year tenure clock). I think of the last step as being less rigidly scheduled but 15 years ought to be long enough. You can't coast but you don't normally have to win a major prize or anything to make full Professor.
Am I wrong about American academia in general, or is BYU somehow special, or has Hauglid somehow had a rough time?
Every university has its standards and its politics. It is not uncommon for a professor to end his career as an associate. It certainly isn't the goal of the institution to have a high number of permanent associates. I have seen a lot of odd things happen in the area of promotions to full. Some people get it simply because the admin needs them to fill a certain role. Others are denied it for specious reasons. I don't know BH's case, but you have to keep in mind that BYU's College of Religion is an unusual place as it is. I would not make much of a person's rank because so often in the past the qualifications for working there were bizarre in the first place. The standards for what is desirable in a religion prof at BYU are also odd. This is less the case today than it was in the past, but it is still an idiosyncratic organization by standard academic measure.
Re: My Interview with Brian Hauglid is Up!
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:04 pm
by _Shulem
consiglieri wrote: โTue Jul 07, 2020 6:04 pm
I agree with you that all of John Gee's obfuscations hit a brick wall when it comes to the Facsimile translations.
"Obfuscations" is the perfect word in describing Gee's excuses and ideas when it comes to turning everything into a parallel. John figures if he can turn something concrete into imaginative parallelism then the critics can't define the concrete logic that disproves the original assertion. Just throw it out there so far and wide that nothing or nobody can really explain it! The revelations are too complicated and undefined that only the mind of God can make sense of it -- and maybe a prophet if he's lucky. It reminds me of how Mormons love to criticise the doctrine of the Trinity pointing out how it doesn't make any sense -- but Mormons fail to see how the Book of Abraham translation doesn't make any sense and even the most stoic apologist will dismiss the so-called Kirtland Papers as uninspired, NOT Holy Ghost induced, but the mere thoughts and ideas of man musing to try and figure out how God just recently got done revealing something to a man, namely Joseph. The apologist chalks up the whole Kirtland Papers project as an exercise in futility -- and the
translation ever remains a mystery in which nobody can approach or crack, not even today's prophets.
The Facsimiles really are the key in quickly putting Joseph Smith in his place. The evidence and proof therein is absolute. Only a mind that refuses to accept logic for testimony sake will deny the truth and cling to their testimony of the restoration for dear life! Though they may admit the translation is false but they won't deny that the testimony is still true. Go figure. But that's how apologist work and they deny the real Holy Ghost which is their inner conscious attempting to guide them though natural instincts and intuition. But apologists will deny all those things in order to keep the show going.
Re: My Interview with Brian Hauglid is Up!
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:22 pm
by _Shulem
On another note, I was pleasantly surprised to learn that Brian Hauglid is in disagreement with official church positions regarding LGBT issues. Hooray for Brian! Way to go.I trust he perceives the hypocrisy recently demonstrated by the failed policy that excluded children of gay parents from being baptized and then suddenly reversing the policy when the membership of the church rejected it. That's pretty much what happened! The membership rejected the policy and so the leaders really had no choice other than to undo what they did or find themselves being rejected by the membership. Ultimately, the leadership feared for their jobs. So they caved.
Re: My Interview with Brian Hauglid is Up!
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:14 pm
by _Analytics
consiglieri wrote: โTue Jul 07, 2020 6:04 pm
LOL!
I agree with you that all of John Gee's obfuscations hit a brick wall when it comes to the Facsimile translations.
I am sorry I wasn't savvy enough to mention that during the interview!
Although I don't recall you or Brian using that word, the idea definitely came across. I came away with the impression that Gee's master-of-the-universe strategy that is beyond peer review is to needlessly complicate the topics in order to impress the members with his intelligence, confuse them in the details, and ultimately put them to sleep before they figure out what is going on. His goal isn't illumination--it saving testimonies through saying things that simultaneously sound intelligent and confuse the issue. In a word:
obfuscation.
Re: My Interview with Brian Hauglid is Up!
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:17 am
by _Simon Southerton
Great interview Consig, but it annoyed the hell out of me. :) Here is my reaction from the other side of the planet, that I am sharing on my Facebook page.
"๐ข๐ป๐ฐ๐ฒ ๐ฎ๐ด๐ฎ๐ถ๐ป...๐๐ต๐ถ๐ป๐ด๐ ๐๐ต๐ฎ๐ ๐ฐ๐ผ๐๐น๐ฑ'๐๐ฒ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐ฒ๐ป ๐ฏ๐ฟ๐ผ๐๐ด๐ต๐ ๐๐ผ ๐บ๐ ๐ฎ๐๐๐ฒ๐ป๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป ๐ฌ๐๐ฆ๐ง๐๐ฅ๐๐๐ฌ!โ
I just listened to almost three hours of an explosive Radio Free Mormon interview with Brian Hauglid, a Mormon authority on the Book of Abraham (Book of Abraham). I came away from the interview feeling annoyed; a bit like Robbie Hart felt when his girlfriend revealed she didnโt want to marry a wedding singer the day before the wedding! But I was only frustrated by the first 2 hrs and 40 mins! The interview was somewhat rescued in the last 15 minutes, but not enough to placate me. Allow me to elaborate.
Brian Hauglid edited the Joseph Smith Papers volume on the Book of Abraham, which was recently published by the Mormon Church. Brian has studied the diaries of Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham for over 20 years. There is abundant evidence, from Smithโs diaries and writings by several of his scribes, that Smith was actively involved in the process of translation, and the papyrus the church possesses were the source. Big problem. The papyrus don't match the Book of Abraham text at all.
Hauglid became convinced the Book of Abraham was created in the 19th century mind of Joseph Smith. But at BYU he ran up against John Gee, a devotee of Hugh Nibley; widely considered in the church to be a lay prophet. Since the text and the papyrus donโt match, Nibley invented a desperate theory that there was a missing scroll that contained the Book of Abraham. Gee, and almost all Book of Abraham Mormon scholars (a handful) subscribe to this ridiculous theory.
In a post on Dan Vogel's Facebook page in November 2018, Hauglid publicly renounced his former belief that the Book of Abraham came from a missing section of scroll and heavily criticised the scholarship of his colleagues Gee and Muhlestein.
โ๐น๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐, ๐ผ ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ โ๐๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐ฃ๐๐๐ค๐ ๐กโ๐๐ก โ๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ข๐๐ก๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ฆ 2010 ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐กโ๐๐ ๐ ๐ฃ๐๐๐๐๐ . ๐ผ โ๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐๐ฃ๐๐ ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐ฆ๐ ๐๐ ๐๐ "๐๐ข๐ก๐๐๐๐๐๐ข๐ " ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ก. ๐ผ๐ ๐๐๐๐ก, ๐ผ'๐ ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐ก๐๐๐๐ ๐ก๐๐ ๐๐ ๐๐๐ฃ๐๐๐ฃ๐๐ ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ก๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐๐๐ฆ ๐ค๐๐ฆ. ๐ผ ๐คโ๐๐๐โ๐๐๐๐ก๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ค๐๐กโ ๐ท๐๐'๐ ๐๐ฅ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐๐ ๐ ๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐ก ๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐ด๐๐๐โ๐๐/๐ธ๐๐ฆ๐๐ก๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ข๐๐๐๐ก๐ ๐๐ ๐กโ๐๐ ๐ ๐ฃ๐๐๐๐๐ . ๐ผ ๐๐๐ค ๐๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐ ๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐ ๐ด๐๐๐โ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ข๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ก. . . . ๐ผ ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ค๐๐กโ ๐บ๐๐ ๐๐ ๐๐ขโ๐๐๐ ๐ก๐๐๐. ๐ผ ๐๐๐๐ ๐กโ๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ก๐๐ "๐ ๐โ๐๐๐๐๐ โ๐๐" ๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐ต๐๐ด ๐๐โ๐๐๐๐๐๐ก. ๐๐๐ ๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐กโ๐๐ก ๐ผ'๐ฃ๐ ๐โ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐กโ๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ข๐๐๐๐๐๐ก๐๐๐๐ .โ
In the interview on Radio Free Mormon, Hauglid complained about John Geeโs habit of โomitting important evidenceโ that seriously undermined the missing scroll theory, and Geeโs fear of peer review, even by colleagues within BYUโs Maxwell Institute! Gee thinks that it is his role to produce scholarship that defends the faith, and so he ignores evidence that doesnโt fit his views. Gee comes across in the interview as an academic coward and bully. Gee has already complained about the interview to his superiors in โBYU Religious Education Leadershipโ in an email in which he asked โIs he retired yet?โ This is about as cowardly as academic bullying gets.โจ
๐๐ฟ๐ผ๐บ: ๐๐ผ๐ต๐ป ๐๐ฒ๐ฒ <๐ท๐ผ๐ต๐ป_๐ด๐ฒ๐ฒ@๐ฏ๐๐.๐ฒ๐ฑ๐>โจ๐๐ฎ๐๐ฒ: ๐ช๐ฒ๐ฑ๐ป๐ฒ๐๐ฑ๐ฎ๐, ๐๐๐น๐ ๐ญ, ๐ฎ๐ฌ๐ฎ๐ฌ ๐ฎ๐ ๐ต:๐ฑ๐ฑ ๐๐ โจ๐ง๐ผ: [๐๐ฌ๐จ ๐ฅ๐ฒ๐น๐ถ๐ด๐ถ๐ผ๐๐ ๐๐ฑ๐๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป ๐๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฒ๐ฟ๐๐ต๐ถ๐ฝ]โจ๐ฆ๐๐ฏ๐ท๐ฒ๐ฐ๐: ๐๐ผ๐ฟ๐๐ฎ๐ฟ๐ฑ๐ถ๐ป๐ด ๐ฎ ๐พ๐๐ฒ๐๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป
๐๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ฟ [๐ฆ๐ถ๐ฟ],
๐ ๐๐ฎ๐ ๐๐ฒ๐ป๐ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐ณ๐ผ๐น๐น๐ผ๐๐ถ๐ป๐ด ๐ถ๐ป๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ๐บ๐ฎ๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป ๐๐ต๐ถ๐ ๐บ๐ผ๐ฟ๐ป๐ถ๐ป๐ด:
๐๐ฟ๐ถ๐ฎ๐ป ๐๐ฎ๐๐ด๐น๐ถ๐ฑ ๐ต๐ฎ๐ ๐ฎ๐ฝ๐ฝ๐ฎ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ป๐๐น๐ ๐ฎ๐ด๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฒ๐ฑ ๐๐ผ ๐ฏ๐ฒ ๐ผ๐ป ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐ฅ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ถ๐ผ ๐๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฒ ๐ ๐ผ๐ฟ๐บ๐ผ๐ป ๐ฝ๐ผ๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐. ๐๐ฟ๐ผ๐บ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐๐ฆ๐ง๐ฃ:
๐ต๐๐๐ฝ://๐บ๐ผ๐ฟ๐บ๐ผ๐ป๐ฑ๐ถ๐๐ฐ๐๐๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป๐.๐ฐ๐ผ๐บ/๐๐ถ๐ฒ๐๐๐ผ๐ฝ๐ถ๐ฐ.๐ฝ๐ต๐ฝ?๐ณ=๐ญ&๐=๐ฑ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐ฌ๐ญ
๐ก๐ผ๐ ๐๐๐ฟ๐ฒ ๐๐ต๐ฒ๐ป ๐ถ๐ ๐๐ถ๐น๐น ๐ฎ๐ฐ๐๐๐ฎ๐น๐น๐ "๐ฎ๐ถ๐ฟ," ๐ฏ๐๐ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐ฝ๐ผ๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ ๐ถ๐ ๐ต๐ฒ๐ฟ๐ฒ:
๐ต๐๐๐ฝ๐://๐ฟ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ถ๐ผ๐ณ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฒ๐บ๐ผ๐ฟ๐บ๐ผ๐ป.๐ผ๐ฟ๐ด/
๐ฆ๐๐ฟ๐ฒ๐น๐ ๐ต๐ฒ ๐ธ๐ป๐ผ๐๐ ๐๐ต๐ถ๐ ๐ถ๐ ๐ฎ๐ป ๐ฒ๐
-๐บ๐ผ๐ฟ๐บ๐ผ๐ป ๐ด๐ฟ๐ผ๐๐ฝ, ๐ฟ๐ถ๐ด๐ต๐?
๐๐ ๐๐ฎ๐ ๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ฐ๐ผ๐บ๐ฝ๐ฎ๐ป๐ถ๐ฒ๐ฑ ๐ฏ๐ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐ณ๐ผ๐น๐น๐ผ๐๐ถ๐ป๐ด ๐พ๐๐ฒ๐๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป:
๐๐ ๐ต๐ฒ ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐๐ถ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฑ ๐๐ฒ๐?
๐๐ผ ๐๐ผ๐ ๐ต๐ฎ๐๐ฒ ๐ฎ๐ป ๐ฎ๐ป๐๐๐ฒ๐ฟ ๐๐ผ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐พ๐๐ฒ๐๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป?
โจ๐๐ผ๐ต๐ป ๐๐ฒ๐ฒโจ๐ช๐ถ๐น๐น๐ถ๐ฎ๐บ
(๐๐ถ๐น๐น) ๐๐ฎ๐ ๐ฅ๐ฒ๐๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ฟ๐ฐ๐ต ๐ฃ๐ฟ๐ผ๐ณ๐ฒ๐๐๐ผ๐ฟโจ
๐๐๐ถ๐ฎ๐ป ๐ฎ๐ป๐ฑ ๐ก๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ฟ ๐๐ฎ๐๐๐ฒ๐ฟ๐ป ๐๐ฎ๐ป๐ด๐๐ฎ๐ด๐ฒ๐
โจ๐๐ฟ๐ถ๐ด๐ต๐ฎ๐บ ๐ฌ๐ผ๐๐ป๐ด ๐จ๐ป๐ถ๐๐ฒ๐ฟ๐๐ถ๐๐
Hauglidโs about face affects some of the most important apologetic claims made in the Churchโs Book of Abraham essay concerning missing papyri. Consider this quote from the essay which is sourced directly from his work.
โ๐ผ๐ก ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐๐ข๐ก๐๐๐ ๐ก๐ ๐๐ ๐ ๐๐ ๐ ๐ฝ๐๐ ๐๐โโ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ก๐ฆ ๐ก๐ ๐ก๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐ก๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ๐๐ ๐คโ๐๐ ๐ค๐ ๐๐๐ค โ๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ก๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ๐๐ โ๐ โ๐๐ ๐๐ โ๐๐ ๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐. ๐ธ๐ฆ๐๐ค๐๐ก๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ โ๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐โ ๐๐ ๐๐ข๐๐ก๐๐๐๐ โ๐๐๐๐๐ โ ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ๐๐ข๐ . ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ก๐ ๐ ๐ข๐๐ฃ๐๐ฃ๐, ๐๐ก ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐กโ๐๐ก ๐๐ข๐โ ๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐ก๐ ๐ฝ๐๐ ๐๐โ ๐คโ๐๐ โ๐ ๐ก๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐ก๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐ด๐๐๐โ๐๐ ๐๐ ๐๐๐ก ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐กโ๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ก๐ . ๐โ๐ ๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐ ๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐๐๐๐ก๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ก๐๐๐๐ โ๐๐ ๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ๐๐ ๐ก๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐ข๐๐๐๐ โ๐๐ ๐ก๐๐ฅ๐ก ๐๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐๐ ๐ ๐๐ก๐ก๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ข๐ ๐๐ฃ๐๐๐ฆ ๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ก๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ๐๐.โ
Brian Hauglid is now being praised by exmormons for his integrity and bravely standing up for what he believed. I believe it was a very courageous move by Brian and I applaud him. So why am I still annoyed?
๐๐ฟ๐ถ๐ฎ๐ป ๐๐ฎ๐๐ด๐น๐ถ๐ฑ ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐๐ถ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฑ ๐ณ๐ฟ๐ผ๐บ ๐๐ฌ๐จ ๐ฑ ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐๐ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ๐ฒ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐ถ๐ป๐๐ฒ๐ฟ๐๐ถ๐ฒ๐.
Hauglid was paid by the Mormon Church for over two decades. The church exerted so much power over him that he wasnโt able to share his concerns more widely for fear of losing his job at BYU. Out of respect for the cherished beliefs of his family and friends he doesn't publicly question the church. Hauglid now sees himself as a heretic rather than an apostate.
Brian Hauglid was in possession of information many of us would have appreciated knowing years ago but he kept it largely to himself until his financial security wasnโt tied so closely to the church. This is an all too familiar story in the church (e.g. Grant Palmer) and it is completely understandable, but it still angers me.
Many of us have devoted large portions of our lives and money to this wealthy American church. We deserved to know the truth, not have it hidden from us by church scholars. What about the hundreds of thousands of Mormons not in Hauglid's circle of friends? Are they not entitled to know the truth? Before they sign that next tithing check, are they not entitled to make an informed decision about the truthfulness of the Book of Abraham before they put pen to paper?
"๐ข๐ป๐ฐ๐ฒ ๐ฎ๐ด๐ฎ๐ถ๐ป...๐๐ต๐ถ๐ป๐ด๐ ๐๐ต๐ฎ๐ ๐ฐ๐ผ๐๐น๐ฑ'๐๐ฒ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐ฒ๐ป ๐ฏ๐ฟ๐ผ๐๐ด๐ต๐ ๐๐ผ ๐บ๐ ๐ฎ๐๐๐ฒ๐ป๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป ๐ฌ๐๐ฆ๐ง๐๐ฅ๐๐๐ฌ!โ
Re: My Interview with Brian Hauglid is Up!
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:02 am
by _Dr Moore
Living example of the dilemma - to speak your truth and lose your living, or hold your tongue and try reforming from within? BYU professor specializing in Book of Abraham history isnโt exactly a portable skill set. I think Hauglid did his best with the cards he was dealt. I applaud his honesty and inside efforts to push boundaries, such as they were, when he was able.
Re: My Interview with Brian Hauglid is Up!
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:19 am
by _Shulem
Simon Southerton wrote: โWed Jul 08, 2020 1:17 am
Consider this quote from the essay which is sourced directly from his work.
โ๐ผ๐ก ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐๐ข๐ก๐๐๐ ๐ก๐ ๐๐ ๐ ๐๐ ๐ ๐ฝ๐๐ ๐๐โโ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ก๐ฆ ๐ก๐ ๐ก๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐ก๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ๐๐ ๐คโ๐๐ ๐ค๐ ๐๐๐ค โ๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ก๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ๐๐ โ๐ โ๐๐ ๐๐ โ๐๐ ๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐. ๐ธ๐ฆ๐๐ค๐๐ก๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ โ๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐โ ๐๐ ๐๐ข๐๐ก๐๐๐๐ โ๐๐๐๐๐ โ ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ๐๐ข๐ . ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ก๐ ๐ ๐ข๐๐ฃ๐๐ฃ๐, ๐๐ก ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐กโ๐๐ก ๐๐ข๐โ ๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐ก๐ ๐ฝ๐๐ ๐๐โ ๐คโ๐๐ โ๐ ๐ก๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐ก๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐ด๐๐๐โ๐๐ ๐๐ ๐๐๐ก ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐กโ๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ก๐ .
๐โ๐ ๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐ ๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐๐๐๐ก๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ก๐๐๐๐ โ๐๐ ๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ๐๐ ๐ก๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐ข๐๐๐๐ โ๐๐ ๐ก๐๐ฅ๐ก ๐๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐๐ ๐ ๐๐ก๐ก๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ข๐ ๐๐ฃ๐๐๐ฆ ๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ก๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ๐๐.โ
Oh, but when it comes to Facsimile No. 3 we have all the hieroglyphic writing in which Smith translated and published his findings in the Times and Seasons. We can compare the text with what's on the papyrus and settle the matter, quite, conclusively.
Anubis is NOT a slave. That is is a conclusive fact -- forever settled in the hieroglyphs and Egyptian religion.
John Gee is damned scum.
A bastard!
A traitor. A liar! A cheat. And you, PETERSON are a fat oversized whale. Fat! Full of glob and lard and poop gas. Go on a diet and do something beside sitting on your FAT ass. It's called diet and exercise, fatso!
Anubis, a god of Egypt, has a message for you, John Gee:
F off, you perverted Egyptologist!
I CAN'T BREATHE!
Re: My Interview with Brian Hauglid is Up!
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:29 am
by _Kishkumen
Letโs imagine I am a CES educator who is starting to reject the Church's Book of Abraham apologetics. I donโt agree that disbelieving in the Churchโs BS apologetics regarding the Book of Abraham should be grounds for firing, excommunication, or any negative consequence. Unfortunately the Church does not agree. Am I obligated to suffer the consequences of their messed up priorities? I pay my tithing too. I put all my eggs in the basket of being a CES educator. Now what do I do? I still find the subject interesting. I can still do my job. Why should anyone feel I am obliged to tell them what they need to hear to decide to leave the Church? Is there no room for me to go through my process and fulfil my obligations to my family?