Nuance Hoe claims missionaries now using bait-and-switch "we're Christian" tactics

[Kishkumen]

Naaaa. Kish, don't be stupid. It's more about Mormonism using New Testament words and pouring meaning into them that are obviously at variance with the biblical evidence (and beyond) and pretending to have the true Christianity and asserting that all the other creeds (interpretations) are an abomination. Strong words. The Mormonites started it.

Sometimes bigotry is well placed. This is one of those cases. The Mormonites are trying to shift ground and downplay the very radical differences in Mormon theology with the rest of New Testament Christianity (and Judaism). Yes, their have been, and still are, fights within the rest of Christiandom, but Mormon theology is quite radical by comparison, right down the line. Surely you know this.

(I am neither New Testament believer nor Mormon)

Don’t be a stupid bigot, bill4long. People have been creatively interpreting the words of Jesus since 30 AD. If you want to believe that one group and one group only is allowed to do that, then you are a moron.

[drumdude]

Naaaa. Kish, don't be stupid. It's more about Mormonism using New Testament words and pouring meaning into them that are obviously at variance with the biblical evidence (and beyond) and pretending to have the true Christianity and asserting that all the other creeds (interpretations) are an abomination. Strong words. The Mormonites started it.

Sometimes bigotry is well placed. This is one of those cases. The Mormonites are trying to shift ground and downplay the very radical differences in Mormon theology with the rest of New Testament Christianity (and Judaism). Yes, their have been, and still are, fights within the rest of Christiandom, but Mormon theology is quite radical by comparison, right down the line. Surely you know this.

(I am neither New Testament believer nor Mormon)

Don’t be a stupid bigot, bill4long. People have been creatively interpreting the words of Jesus since 30 AD. If you want to believe that one group and one group only is allowed to do that, then you are a moron.

Kish,

I’m curious if you believe that Scientology is compatible with Christian beliefs. Scientology has long claimed so, with nearly universal pushback by Christians. I don’t see those Christians as acting like bigots, but instead highlighting important differences and incompatibilities.

At what point does some bit of objectivity slide in to judge subjective beliefs? Or do we never have any grounds to evaluate this?

I’m just curious if there are limits to this line of thought.

[Chap]

Naaaa. Kish, don't be stupid. It's more about Mormonism using New Testament words and pouring meaning into them that are obviously at variance with the biblical evidence (and beyond) and pretending to have the true Christianity and asserting that all the other creeds (interpretations) are an abomination. Strong words. The Mormonites started it.

Sometimes bigotry is well placed. This is one of those cases. The Mormonites are trying to shift ground and downplay the very radical differences in Mormon theology with the rest of New Testament Christianity (and Judaism). Yes, their have been, and still are, fights within the rest of Christiandom, but Mormon theology is quite radical by comparison, right down the line. Surely you know this.

(I am neither New Testament believer nor Mormon)

Don’t be a stupid bigot, bill4long. People have been creatively interpreting the words of Jesus since 30 AD. If you want to believe that one group and one group only is allowed to do that, then you are a moron.

Phew! You got lucky there, bill4long!

Fortunately, you avoided being a moron by not saying that "one group and one group only" is allowed to creatively interpret the words of Jesus. Instead you pointed out that Mormon theology appeared to stretch its "creativity" a lot further than most other groups.

That is obviously a legitimate judgement to make, though some may disagree with it. There is certainly nothing moronic about it.

[Kishkumen]

Phew! You got lucky there, bill4long!

Fortunately, you avoided being a moron by not saying that " one group and one group only" is allowed to creatively interpret the words of Jesus. Instead you pointed out that Mormon theology appeared to stretch its "creativity" a lot further than most other groups.

That is obviously a legitimate judgement to make, though some may disagree with it. There is certainly nothing moronic about it.

Disappointing, Chap. You evidently think that if the group is big enough, that makes it all OK.

[Kishkumen]

Kish,

I’m curious if you believe that Scientology is compatible with Christian beliefs. Scientology has long claimed so, with nearly universal pushback by Christians. I don’t see those Christians as acting like bigots, but instead highlighting important differences and incompatibilities.

At what point does some bit of objectivity slide in to judge subjective beliefs? Or do we never have any grounds to evaluate this?

I’m just curious if there are limits to this line of thought.

How much do you know about Scientology, drumdude? Not much, I guess.

[Chap]

Phew! You got lucky there, bill4long!

Fortunately, you avoided being a moron by not saying that " one group and one group only" is allowed to creatively interpret the words of Jesus. Instead you pointed out that Mormon theology appeared to stretch its "creativity" a lot further than most other groups.

That is obviously a legitimate judgement to make, though some may disagree with it. There is certainly nothing moronic about it.

Disappointing, Chap. You evidently think that if the group is big enough, that makes it all OK.

Commenting on bill4long's post, Kishkumen said that people who said that "one group and one group only" is allowed to creatively interpret the words of Jesus were morons. I pointed out that bill4long did not say that "one group and one group only" was allowed to creatively interpret the words of Jesus, but that he was saying that Mormon theology appeared to stretch its "creativity" a lot further than most other groups - of which there are, of course, a very large number.

Now Kishkumen decides to lump all the highly diverse exegetical groups other than Mormons into one group. So anyone who says anything critical about Mormon exegesis is, by definition, saying that only one group, non-Mormons is allowed to to creatively interpret the words of Jesus. OK ...very agile but somehow (how can I put it?) disappointing?

What, by the way, is the Mormon view of the legitimacy of the exegeses of non-Mormon students of the New Testament, as expressed by the founder of the religion?

[Kishkumen]

Commenting on bill4long's post, Kishkumen said that people who said that "one group and one group only" is allowed to creatively interpret the words of Jesus were morons. I pointed out that bill4long did not say that "one group and one group only" was allowed to creatively interpret the words of Jesus, but that he was saying that Mormon theology appeared to stretch its "creativity" a lot further than most other groups - of which there are, of course, a very large number.

Now Kishkumen decides to lump all the highly diverse exegetical groups other than Mormons into one group. So anyone who says anything critical about Mormon exegesis is, by definition, saying that only one group, non-Mormons is allowed to to creatively interpret the words of Jesus. OK ...very agile but somehow (how can I put it?) disappointing?

What, by the way, is the Mormon view of the legitimacy of the exegeses of non-Mormon students of the New Testament, as expressed by the founder of the religion?

I am not sure exactly what got your goat, but there is no good reason to make yourself look like an ass over it.

[huckelberry]

kishkumen, I thought your rejection of the complaints Nuance Hoe was making was reasonable. I do not quite understand what has driven you to become so hostile in this thread. I did not get the impression anybody was doing a Walter Martin, Kingdom of the Cults act.

[Kishkumen]

kishkumen, I thought your rejection of the complaints Nuance Hoe was making was reasonable. I do not quite understand what has driven you to become so hostile in this thread. I did not get the impression anybody was doing a Walter Martin, Kingdom of the Cults act.

Bill4long is a troll. That should be sufficient explanation.

Chap was angry with me for other reasons and decided to use a troll as leverage.

In any case, the basic point stands. I don’t accept the arguments that Mormons are not Christians or that them claiming to be Christian is deceptive. I understand the historical and practical reasons it happens, but I do not agree with it or support it.

[Canadiandude2]

The whole trinity thing is just an arbitrary, agreed-upon social construct by which you declare who is or is not Christian.

What about Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva from Hinduism, or Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil from Morrowind? Gods sometimes run in threes.

ByTW, BYU apologists should feel free to use this Morrowind example of three separate Gods who are unified in one purpose. Just credit Bethesda Software in your notes.

I hope this is a joke. I haven’t found anything to support the validity nor reliability of those ideas either, as being anything beyond arbitrary, historically contingent, and intersubjective artefacts.