Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

[MG 2.0]

These are not just the opinions of man. They were direct teachings given by the presiding elders of the Church as a revelation from God. Cumorah in New York State!

You may be right!

Have you read this essay by Andrew Hedges? Yes Morley, I did read it all the way through.

https://rsc.BYU.edu/vol-10-no-2-2009/cu ... can-theory

We often want to simplify things. Andrew proposes that Book of Mormon geography and the final battles that were fought around the environs of Cumorah may have a bit more complexity revolving around them than we may think.

This essay is well worth the read to broaden one’s perspective of the Nephite/Lamanite/Jaredite final battles and their location(s).

Regards,
MG

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

These are not just the opinions of man. They were direct teachings given by the presiding elders of the Church as a revelation from God. Cumorah in New York State!

You may be right!

Have you read this essay by Andrew Hedges? Yes Morley, I did read it all the way through.

https://rsc.BYU.edu/vol-10-no-2-2009/cu ... can-theory

We often want to simplify things. Andrew proposes that Book of Mormon geography and the final battles that were fought around the environs of Cumorah may have a bit more complexity revolving around them than we may think.

This essay is well worth the read to broaden one’s perspective of the Nephite/Lamanite/Jaredite final battles and their location(s).

Regards,
MG

-_-

From the footnotes:

The absence of evidence for an event, of course, cannot be considered evidence for the absence of the event. This is especially true for questions involving the archaeology of New York’s Hill Cumorah, where no professional archaeological studies, apparently, have been conducted (see Clark, “Archaeology and Cumorah Questions,” 146).

- Doc

[Shulem]

https://rsc.BYU.edu/vol-10-no-2-2009/cu ... can-theory

We often want to simplify things. Andrew proposes that Book of Mormon geography and the final battles that were fought around the environs of Cumorah may have a bit more complexity revolving around them than we may think.

This essay is well worth the read to broaden one’s perspective of the Nephite/Lamanite/Jaredite final battles and their location(s).

MG,

I've not read that essay but I'll consider it. I avoid apologetic essays and articles like the plague (Gordon B. Hinkley's pornography) so I don't poison my mind. Let's further enlighten ourselves from the sermon brother Cowdery gave to the entire Church. The last statement previously quoted in this thread from that sermon was:

. . . In this same spot, in full view from the top of this same hill, one may gaze with astonishment upon the ground which was twice covered with the dead and dying of our fellow men.

And with that, allow me to quote the remainder of the sermon for your benefit and for those who are reading this thread:

Here may be seen where once sunk to nought the pride and strength of two mighty nations; and here may be contemplated, in solitude, while nothing but the faithful record of Mormon and Moroni is now extant to inform us of the fact, scenes of misery and distress-the aged, whose silver locks in other places and at other times would command reverence; the mother, who in other circumstances would be spared from violence; the infant, whose tender cries would be regarded and listened to with a feeling of compassion and tenderness; and the virgin, whose grace, beauty and modesty, would be esteemed and held inviolate by all good men and enlightened and civilized nations, alike disregarded and treated with scorn!-In vain did the hoary head and man of gray hairs ask for mercy; in vain did the mother plead for compassion; in vain did the helpless and harmless infant weep for very anguish, and in vain did the virgin seek to escape the ruthless hand of revengeful foes and demons in human form-all alike were trampled down by the feet of the strong, and crushed beneath the rage of battle and war! Alas, who can reflect upon the last struggles of great and populous nations, sinking to dust beneath the hand of justice and retribution, without weeping over the corruption of the human heart, and sighing for the hour when the clangor of arms shall no more be heard, nor the calamities of contending armies no more experienced for a thousand years? Alas, the calamity of war, the extinction of nations, the ruin of kingdoms, the fall of empires and the dissolution of governments! O the misery, distress and evil attendant on these! Who can contemplate like scenes without sorrowing, and who so destitute of commiseration as not to be pained that man has fallen so low, so far beneath the station in which he was created?

In this vale lie commingled, in one mass of ruin, the ashes of thousands, and in this vale was destined to consume the fair forms and vigerous systems of tens of thousands of the human race-blood mixed with blood, flesh with flesh, bones with bones, and dust with dust! When the vital spark which animated their clay had fled, each lifeless lump lay on one common level-cold and inanimate. Those bosoms which had burned with rage against each other for real or supposed injury, had now ceased to heave with malice; those arms which were, a few moments before nerved with strength, had alike become paralyzed, and those hearts which had been fired with revenge, had now ceased to heave with malice; those arms which were, a few moments before nerved with strength, had alike become paralyzed, and those hearts which had been fired with revenge, had now ceased to beat, and the head to think-in silence, in solitude, and in disgrace alike, they have long since turned to earth, to their mother dust, to await the august, and to millions, awful hour, when the Trump of the Son of God shall echo and re-echo from the skies, and they come forth, quickened and immortalized, to not only stand in each other's presence, but before the bar of him who is Eternal!

With sentiments of pure respect, I conclude by subscribing myself your brother in the gospel.

OLIVER COWDERY.

Thus, Oliver Cowdery dedicated the burial grounds of Cumorah under the direction of the prophet Joseph Smith!

Amen.

PS. Philo, are you feeling more of those shivers? lol

[MG 2.0]

Thus, Oliver Cowdery dedicated the burial grounds of Cumorah under the direction of the prophet Joseph Smith!

The essay I linked to by Andrew Hedges potentially supports your position. You should WANT to read THIS apologist.

Right Doc?

Keep an open mind folks.

Regards,
MG

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Thus, Oliver Cowdery dedicated the burial grounds of Cumorah under the direction of the prophet Joseph Smith!

The essay I linked to by Andrew Hedges potentially supports your position. You should WANT to read THIS apologist.

Right Doc?

Keep an open mind folks.

Regards,
MG

Quote the relevant portion with commentary so we can see you actually read it and understand it contextually.

- Doc

[Shulem]

Quote the relevant portion with commentary so we can see you actually read it and understand it contextually.

- Doc

Yes, MG, do let us know.

And read this entire thread, please. Keep an open mind. You might learn something.

[Marcus]

Thus, Oliver Cowdery dedicated the burial grounds of Cumorah under the direction of the prophet Joseph Smith!

The essay I linked to by Andrew Hedges potentially supports your position. You should WANT to read THIS apologist.

Right Doc?

Keep an open mind folks.

Regards,
MG

I'd say no. This essay suggests that already debunked concepts re native american history (moundbuilders, Hopewell, etc.)may help in supporting the Book of Mormon (see last 5 paragraphs and footnotes 56-69). For example:

[66] Many have argued that the Book of Mormon, which recounts the course of civilizations in America derived from biblical peoples, merely reflects common early American theories regarding the ancient ruins so visible in the Mississippi and Ohio river valleys. Intent on refuting such ideas, Joseph Smith’s modern defenders have failed to see that the evidence behind these early theories might actually be invoked in support of the Book of Mormon’s claims to ancient origins and connections with ancient Near Eastern cultures.

[67] The uncritical use of these sources in connection with dubious other “sources” (such as the fraudulent “Michigan Relics”) by various researchers advocating a Limited Great Lakes geography for Book of Mormon events (see sources Listed in note 60 above for recent examples) has no doubt contributed to scholars' negative assessment of their worth.

A suggestion to go back and use fraudulent sources and debunked theories is not helpful. There is a reason scholars have a "negative assessment of their worth." Keeping an open mind shouldn't include being open to frauds and repeatedly disproven theories, no matter how much they might appear to support the 'historicity' of a fictional book.

[Moksha]

From the footnotes:

The absence of evidence for an event, of course, cannot be considered evidence for the absence of the event. This is especially true for questions involving the archaeology of New York’s Hill Cumorah, where no professional archaeological studies, apparently, have been conducted (see Clark, “Archaeology and Cumorah Questions,” 146).

- Doc

Until there is an established method to rule out a sherd of Nephite pottery existing in a parallel universe, the Interpreter Foundation will consider the possibility to be open.

[MG 2.0]

The essay I linked to by Andrew Hedges potentially supports your position. You should WANT to read THIS apologist.

Right Doc?

Keep an open mind folks.

Regards,
MG

Quote the relevant portion with commentary so we can see you actually read it and understand it contextually.

- Doc

My experience/thoughts in regards to my interaction with you can be summed up in these comments which were made by Joseph Smith:

“We again make remark here—for we find that the very principle upon which the disciples were accounted blessed, was because they were permitted to see with their eyes and hear with their ears—that the condemnation which rested upon the multitude that received not His saying, was because they were not willing to see with their eyes, and hear with their ears; not because they could not, and were not privileged to see and hear, but because their hearts were full of iniquity and abominations; ‘as your fathers did, so do ye.’ [Acts 7:51.] The prophet, foreseeing that they would thus harden their hearts, plainly declared it; and herein is the condemnation of the world; that light hath come into the world, and men choose darkness rather than light, because their deeds are evil. This is so plainly taught by the Savior, that a wayfaring man need not mistake it.
“… Men are in the habit, when the truth is exhibited by the servants of God, of saying, All is mystery; they have spoken in parables, and, therefore, are not to be understood. It is true they have eyes to see, and see not, but none are so blind as those who will not see; and, although the Savior spoke this to such characters, yet unto His disciples he expounded it plainly; and we have reason to be truly humble before the God of our fathers, that He hath left these things on record for us, so plain, that notwithstanding the exertions and combined influence of the priests of Baal, they have not power to blind our eyes, and darken our understanding, if we will but open our eyes, and read with candor, for a moment.”

Even though I have not met you in real life I have heard enough to cause me to think, with a degree of certainty, that you and others here are “blind” to those things that would interfere with the way you have come to view your place in the world and all that this encompasses. I don’t expect that IF you took the time to read essays/articles such as the one I’ve just posted that it would substantially or even fractionally change your world view. I get that. I’m not going to go through and humor your laziness/apathy by spoon feeding what an author has to say.

For Shulem, the fact that HIS views are in fact substantiated, by an apologist(!), ought to cause him to eat it right up and THEN either spit it out or consume it to add to his repertory of information.

Doc, honestly, I have little or no interest in a conversation (if you can even call it that) with you. Your track record is dismal inasmuch as actually engaging with the material that is put right in front of your smug little face.

My hope would be that there are lurkers and/or others that still have an open mind and are willing to engage with ALL the information available rather than restricting themselves ONLY to that which supports their dogmatic conclusions/position.

This is, of course, the point at which you laugh and tell me to go look in the mirror, right? After all, you are the one that disputed whether or not I had read No Man Knows My History and would not simply accept the fact that I had. And most probably before you ever picked it up.

No, I’m not here to attempt to connect with you personally in any way, shape, or form. That’s a lost cause. I accept that. Again, I simply hope there are those that are questioning their faith who might pop in here and find any links, ideas, thoughts that I have to give them help give them another reason to really take a deep dive in their journey rather than making premature judgements that ultimately affect them and their families for the rest of their lives, if not for eternity.

You are of no concern/interest to me.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

For Shulem, the fact that HIS views are in fact substantiated, by an apologist(!), ought to cause him to eat it right up and THEN either spit it out or consume it to add to his repertory of information....

Good grief. Your comment is nonsense. Will you just READ THE THREAD?