Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?

[ceeboo]

Back up "my assertion" that there are many Jews today who follow Jesus?

Jews who follow Jesus (a.k.a. Christians) come under two main umbrellas.

1. Messianic Jews - Around 350,000 - belonging to their own Messianic Jewish congregations due to a desire to hang on to their cherished Jewish heritage and traditions

2. Christians who just happen to be ethnic Jews and land in any number of other congregations - I have no idea how many.

What point and/or challenge are you trying to make?

If Google is to be believed, Messianic Jews are not all ethnic Jews. So, not “a lot of Jews who worship Jesus.” Do you retract your over-exaggeration?

- Doc

No.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

If Google is to be believed, Messianic Jews are not all ethnic Jews. So, not “a lot of Jews who worship Jesus.” Do you retract your over-exaggeration?

- Doc

No.

Naturally.

- Doc

[Jersey Girl]

I read the exchanges regardging Messianic Jews and want to throw this comment on the pile. I've been reading up and learning from Messianic Jews on youtube channels and discovered something I never knew or understood. Perhaps you all know this already but I didn't.

So among the different sects of Judaism, some branches only learned and continue to only learn the Torah.

While other branches learn the entire Tanakh.

Now I don't think that the various branches of Judaism can all be divided into those two groups but I'm trying to make a point here.

I think those who were taught the Tanakh are more likely to be open to the idea Jesus as Messiah because they've been taught the Law and the prophecies where the first group is rooted the Law.

So that's my contribution. Learning about how these various branches developed has been absolutely fascinating and seems to explain the differing perspectives found in Judaism. It's not a one size fits all religion like I thought it was. There's terminology and concepts I'm still trying to learn and really, it's just for my own self. Decades ago I realized or came to believe that we can't fully understand the Bible (especially the Old Testament to start with) if we don't understand Hebrew symbolism. One thing led to another and here I'm finding the Messianic Jews more helpful in decoding the Old Testament and also New Testament references because they know it's there, they know what it means, they've been taught it from childhod, and in the end it turns out that we have something in common which is Jesus as Messiah.

Carry on folks. Doubt I'll reply here again.

[Gadianton]

These four all have equal value?

If I were to break into an average Mormon house, would I find all four on the table?

MG evaded the questions and Steuss is right about the quad and right about members placing different value on scripture, but I think the intent was, what does the Church say has the most value?

The Bible has the last value, even though ironically, Mormons appeal to it for doctrinal points more than they do the Book of Mormon. The reason why the Bible is last place is because "we believe the Bible to be the word of God so long as it is translated correctly." While the Book of Mormon is "the most correct book on the face of the earth."

The pearl of great price and D&C is at the same level of the Book of Mormon in terms of authority, however, there is a unique commandment to read the Book of Mormon 1/2 hour a day for its spirituality. This command does not exist for any other scripture. MG is in apostasy for using Grant Hardy's readers guide version, unless he's using that AFTER his half hour of pure Book of Mormon reading. Steuss's father should also be careful about that two hours of study if it's getting too technical, as 1/2 hour of that needs to be pure Book of Mormon reading.

But there is something missing here. The Brethren have counseled us to place the current General Conference Ensign along with our scriptures on our bookshelves and to refer to it first. Remember, Mormons are led by a modern day prophet, he's Jesus's mouthpiece on the earth today.

To sum up, if "value" is interpreted as authority, it goes like this:

Current General Conference talks as found in the Ensign
Book of Mormon, Pearl, D&C
Bible

If value is interpreted as spirituality and pure testimony building:
Book of Mormon
GC talks
Pearl, D&C
Bible

That second category may be slightly speculative, I think the church leaders would want to put their voices as high on the list as possible but aren't going to be able to go against the tradition that the Book of Mormon is the unique conversion tool in terms of spirituality.

[Jersey Girl]

To sum up, if "value" is interpreted as authority, it goes like this:

Current General Conference talks as found in the Ensign
Book of Mormon, Pearl, D&C
Bible

If value is interpreted as spirituality and pure testimony building:
Book of Mormon
GC talks
Pearl, D&C
Bible

That second category may be slightly speculative, I think the church leaders would want to put their voices as high on the list as possible but aren't going to be able to go against the tradition that the Book of Mormon is the unique conversion tool in terms of spirituality.

I wouldn't have ordered the works the same way you did but now I see it makes some level of sense to put Gen Con talks up near the top of the list. Would that be due to continuing revelation?

I would have but the Bible at the bottom just as you did. Always good to hear from someone who really knows, Gad. Thanks!

[huckelberry]

These four all have equal value?

If I were to break into an average Mormon house, would I find all four on the table?

MG evaded the questions and Steuss is right about the quad and right about members placing different value on scripture, but I think the intent was, what does the Church say has the most value?

The Bible has the last value, even though ironically, Mormons appeal to it for doctrinal points more than they do the Book of Mormon. The reason why the Bible is last place is because "we believe the Bible to be the word of God so long as it is translated correctly." While the Book of Mormon is "the most correct book on the face of the earth."

The pearl of great price and D&C is at the same level of the Book of Mormon in terms of authority, however, there is a unique commandment to read the Book of Mormon 1/2 hour a day for its spirituality. This command does not exist for any other scripture. MG is in apostasy for using Grant Hardy's readers guide version, unless he's using that AFTER his half hour of pure Book of Mormon reading. Steuss's father should also be careful about that two hours of study if it's getting too technical, as 1/2 hour of that needs to be pure Book of Mormon reading.

But there is something missing here. The Brethren have counseled us to place the current General Conference Ensign along with our scriptures on our bookshelves and to refer to it first. Remember, Mormons are led by a modern day prophet, he's Jesus's mouthpiece on the earth today.

To sum up, if "value" is interpreted as authority, it goes like this:

Current General Conference talks as found in the Ensign
Book of Mormon, Pearl, D&C
Bible

If value is interpreted as spirituality and pure testimony building:
Book of Mormon
GC talks
Pearl, D&C
Bible

That second category may be slightly speculative, I think the church leaders would want to put their voices as high on the list as possible but aren't going to be able to go against the tradition that the Book of Mormon is the unique conversion tool in terms of spirituality.

Gadianton,sometimes you astonish me with the degree of nightmarish fundamentalism in your Mormon background. I am sure you speak from your real experience. Maybe there has been church change in the fifty plus years since I was involved. I might also consider perhaps my family and friends were rather on a liberal end of things.

A commandment to read Book of Mormon 30minutes a day? Really? how bizarre. A commandment? when and how did that happen?
I think your hirarchy of sources fit what some individual authorities want. I think in the actual creation and foundation of ideas of the church the authority is the Bible, D and C and touches of the occult culture of the time as Kishkumen notes in that order.

I cannot think of any church doctrine that comes first from the Book of Mormon. I am open to correction of course.

[MG 2.0]

These four all have equal value?

If I were to break into an average Mormon house, would I find all four on the table?

MG evaded the questions and Steuss is right about the quad and right about members placing different value on scripture, but I think the intent was, what does the Church say has the most value?

The Bible has the last value, even though ironically, Mormons appeal to it for doctrinal points more than they do the Book of Mormon. The reason why the Bible is last place is because "we believe the Bible to be the word of God so long as it is translated correctly." While the Book of Mormon is "the most correct book on the face of the earth."

The pearl of great price and D&C is at the same level of the Book of Mormon in terms of authority, however, there is a unique commandment to read the Book of Mormon 1/2 hour a day for its spirituality. This command does not exist for any other scripture. MG is in apostasy for using Grant Hardy's readers guide version, unless he's using that AFTER his half hour of pure Book of Mormon reading. Steuss's father should also be careful about that two hours of study if it's getting too technical, as 1/2 hour of that needs to be pure Book of Mormon reading.

But there is something missing here. The Brethren have counseled us to place the current General Conference Ensign along with our scriptures on our bookshelves and to refer to it first. Remember, Mormons are led by a modern day prophet, he's Jesus's mouthpiece on the earth today.

To sum up, if "value" is interpreted as authority, it goes like this:

Current General Conference talks as found in the Ensign
Book of Mormon, Pearl, D&C
Bible

If value is interpreted as spirituality and pure testimony building:
Book of Mormon
GC talks
Pearl, D&C
Bible

That second category may be slightly speculative, I think the church leaders would want to put their voices as high on the list as possible but aren't going to be able to go against the tradition that the Book of Mormon is the unique conversion tool in terms of spirituality.

My two cents as a lifelong practicing member of the church. If you are prioritizing the canon of scripture I would say it goes like this:

1. Book of Mormon
2. Bible
3. Conference talks
4. D&C/PofGP

As I said earlier, they all have value to the Saints as the mind and will of the Lord. It’s interesting that the apostates that no longer believe seem to think that they know the value and meaning of the scriptures, more so than those that are active and believing members of the church.

My guess is that in this case and on this thread Gadianton would prefer to muddy the waters with ceeboo and cause him to do a ‘double take’ on the priority that members of the church place on the scriptural canon.

Truth is, the Bible is right up there with the Book of Mormon in my estimation because of the ties it has to the life of Jesus and the early apostles. Many if not most of the scriptural passages in the Old Testament and New Testament we find common value in with our Christian brothers and sisters. Yes, we may have some differences in exegesis, but we see Jesus Christ through the teachings found in the Holy Bible.

Don’t let apostates ‘tell you how it is’. They don’t believe any of it anyway. To them it’s all ‘hocus pocus’.

I have to laugh. Using the Annotated Book of Mormon is ‘apostate’ in Gadianton’s view. Sheesh. The Book of Mormon is there word for word with study commentary.

It comes back to what I’ve said in the past. It seems to me as though many ‘actual’ apostates seem to have a ‘fundie’ side to them in which their religious/Mormon worldview is black and white with little or no wiggle room. That’s been my observation anyway from interactions here over the years.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Gadianton,sometimes you astonish me with the degree of nightmarish fundamentalism in your Mormon background…

It astonishes me also.

A commandment to read Book of Mormon 30minutes a day? Really?

No. You’ve got to remember huckleberry, this fellow is an apostate. He’s going to come up with stuff.

I’m sure he’s a nice guy and all. But in regards to Mormonism he seems to be rather ‘fundie’ in some respects.

Regards,
MG

[ceeboo]

My two cents as a lifelong practicing member of the church. If you are prioritizing the canon of scripture I would say it goes like this:

1. Book of Mormon
2. Bible
3. Conference talks
4. D&C/PofGP

Thanks, MG.

I wanted to be clear about one thing - When you say Bible (Old Testament and New Testament) are you talking about the same Bible I would use or is there a Mormon Bible?

[Marcus]

A commandment to read Book of Mormon 30minutes a day? Really?

...No. You’ve got to remember huckleberry, this fellow is an apostate. He’s going to come up with stuff...

Lol. Sometimes I really wonder about your Mormon upbringing, mg. You seem to have missed quite a bit.


Huckelberry, like Gadianton, I grew up with that commandment as well. Here's a source:

We, ourselves, must be studying the scriptures and have a daily habit.19

The way you build spirituality [is] by study of the gospel.20

"Strive in your homes, and teach others, to take some time of each day to have a quiet hour, meditation.

Let there be study of the scriptures at least thirty minutes of each day...”

[Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: President Harold B. Lee]

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 7?lang=eng

Harold B. Lee was President of the LDS church July 1972 to December 1973.
The link fills in more history about it if you are interested.