Secular folks should worry.

[malkie]

Still only 59!

Someone(s) please respond!

ETA: We did it - despite my pessimism! Yay us!

[Marcus]

Still only 59!

Someone(s) please respond!

ETA: We did it - despite my pessimism! Yay us!

[MG 2.0]

You have failed the burden you take upon yourself for claiming what you think is true, or you think is a valid worldview. Your entire position, it appears, is nothing more than your own imagination. Well, of course, you've been told these "truths" by others, but it is apparently only imagination to think any of it is true.

The point I stuck to, and the whole thrust of the thread was the ‘truth’ that we, as a society, ought to be concerned with any trends that would lead us somewhere that none of us want to go.

And that it is through the practice and continued implementation of Judaeo-Christian principles that we will most likely find continued foundational supports for civil society.

If we can’t agree on that then I suppose the discussion ends there.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Made it to 60!

Hurrah!
MG

[Dr Exiled]

You have failed the burden you take upon yourself for claiming what you think is true, or you think is a valid worldview. Your entire position, it appears, is nothing more than your own imagination. Well, of course, you've been told these "truths" by others, but it is apparently only imagination to think any of it is true.

The point I stuck to, and the whole thrust of the thread was the ‘truth’ that we, as a society, ought to be concerned with any trends that would lead us somewhere that none of us want to go.

And that it is through the practice and continued implementation of Judaeo-Christian principles that we will most likely find continued foundational supports for civil society.

If we can’t agree on that then I suppose the discussion ends there.

Regards,
MG

MG:

You seem like a thoughtful and articulate person. So, could you explain why Judaeo-Christian principles are necessary to civil society? Why that as opposed to something else? Could Hindu ethics solve the problem you see? How about just treating people fairly?

[honorentheos]

You have failed the burden you take upon yourself for claiming what you think is true, or you think is a valid worldview. Your entire position, it appears, is nothing more than your own imagination. Well, of course, you've been told these "truths" by others, but it is apparently only imagination to think any of it is true.

The point I stuck to, and the whole thrust of the thread was the ‘truth’ that we, as a society, ought to be concerned with any trends that would lead us somewhere that none of us want to go.

Thus the problem. The OP asserted the above as the conflating of religious participation and civil society, and refused to explore if those were even valid postulates.

They aren't.

[Gadianton]

And that it is through the practice and continued implementation of Judaeo-Christian principles that we will most likely find continued foundational supports for civil society.

Even if this were true, which it isn't, the most recent attempts to fix society through Christian values has been to lie and say an election was stolen in order to keep a con-man with no principles, let alone Judaeo-Christian ones, in power, whose support base is comprised of the most vocal Christians in this country who like MG 2.0, yell the loudest about fixing the country through Christian values. And the best example of a Judaeo-Christian value from these same said Christians is the unrestricted right to own as many guns as possible. The best way I can signal my belief in Judaeo-Christianity to vocal Christians in this country like MG 2.0 is to take a picture of my family brandishing assault rifles.

Another way I can signal my belief in Christian values is to show support for Vladimir Putin's attack on Ukraine. If MG 2.0 were to meet me on the street, and the first thing I say to him is I just got back from helping in a soup kitchen, MG would reason it's more likely than not I'm Christian, but there is still a good chance that I'm not. However, if I were to praise Vladimir Putin's war effort and speak with firm belief that he's close to achieving his goals, then MG would believe I'm Christian with near 100% certainty.

And so what "Judaeo-Christian" principles actually mean in practice in today's world is totally up in the air, with a good deal of it being the most reprehensible dredge a person can image. And so "NewsMax MG 2.0" is proposing something that is in essence, meaningless.

[MG 2.0]

And that it is through the practice and continued implementation of Judaeo-Christian principles that we will most likely find continued foundational supports for civil society.

Even if this were true, which it isn't, the most recent attempts to fix society through Christian values has been to lie and say an election was stolen in order to keep a con-man with no principles, let alone Judaeo-Christian ones, in power, whose support base is comprised of the most vocal Christians in this country who like MG 2.0, yell the loudest about fixing the country through Christian values. And the best example of a Judaeo-Christian value from these same said Christians is the unrestricted right to own as many guns as possible. The best way I can signal my belief in Judaeo-Christianity to vocal Christians in this country like MG 2.0 is to take a picture of my family brandishing assault rifles.

Another way I can signal my belief in Christian values is to show support for Vladimir Putin's attack on Ukraine. If MG 2.0 were to meet me on the street, and the first thing I say to him is I just got back from helping in a soup kitchen, MG would reason it's more likely than not I'm Christian, but there is still a good chance that I'm not. However, if I were to praise Vladimir Putin's war effort and speak with firm belief that he's close to achieving his goals, then MG would believe I'm Christian with near 100% certainty.

And so what "Judaeo-Christian" principles actually mean in practice in today's world is totally up in the air, with a good deal of it being the most reprehensible dredge a person can image. And so "NewsMax MG 2.0" is proposing something that is in essence, meaningless.

I don’t own a gun.

I support Ukraine. I’ve donated to their cause. Putin should be prosecuted for war crimes.

Gadianton, it’s posts like this that cause me a bit of consternation/concern in your behalf.

You’re not the only one around here that gets things SO wrong in the particulars. You paint in large strokes. That can make a mess of things.

Your stereotyping is noted.

I do agree with you that there is a spectrum of ‘conservatism’ with gun toters and far right extremists at the whacko end.

Folks like me who find ourselves as somewhat akin to Heinz 57’s when it comes to nailing us down to any one political party find folks like you amusing. That you (you’re not alone, Res Ipsa has been doing the very same thing on this thread) can come across as so smart and yet be so dumb is well, almost funny.

Except it’s not.

As self confirmed moderate I actually find the stereotyping somewhat disheartening. It is this sort of behavior and pigeon holing that I find worrisome as I look forward with hope to an ongoing civil society.

We can look at groups and trends as having characteristics that may go against our own ‘mission statements’ and ‘articles of faith’, but we need to be careful at pointing our fingers directly at an individual and blazing away indiscriminately.

On this board Doc is a master, although in an almost infantile way, of doing this. He’s rather transparent. Others are a bit more opaque and at times translucent in their approach.

Stereotyping is what is causing a good bit of the disarray that we are seeing as a gradual but noticeable increase in and across our nation and throughout our society. We need to see each other as individuals first and members of whatever tribe we belong to somewhere after that.

Concerns expressed in the OP are warranted methinks. I see markers/evidence of my concerns in a small microcosm that we call DiscussMormonism.com.

But I understand others may not agree. And here you would be the majority voice.

Regards,
MG

[honorentheos]

Stereotyping is what is causing a good bit of the disarray that we are seeing as a gradual but noticeable increase in and across our nation and throughout our society. We need to see each other as individuals first and members of whatever tribe we belong to somewhere after that.

Did you forget your own OP?

Heal thyself, physician.

[dastardly stem]

You have failed the burden you take upon yourself for claiming what you think is true, or you think is a valid worldview. Your entire position, it appears, is nothing more than your own imagination. Well, of course, you've been told these "truths" by others, but it is apparently only imagination to think any of it is true.

The point I stuck to, and the whole thrust of the thread was the ‘truth’ that we, as a society, ought to be concerned with any trends that would lead us somewhere that none of us want to go.

And that it is through the practice and continued implementation of Judaeo-Christian principles that we will most likely find continued foundational supports for civil society.

If we can’t agree on that then I suppose the discussion ends there.

Regards,
MG

MG! What are you trying to do here? Your OP was not about that. You referred to a couple of articles which relied on a study of Orhtodox Jews and whether these religious adherents are close to God, in the view of those who conducted the study. And how that translates to whether the younger generation of this jewish community showed any signs of mental health issues during the pandemic as a result of it. It turns out the group who were closer to God had less mental health issues among those in this religious community than not. That says nothing about "secular folks" at all. Indeed here's your response (first response in the thread) to DrCam:

Apparently you as a secular person don’t have some of the same concerns that might be extrapolated from the research conducted on GenZ. It’s interesting, isn’t it, how the last few generation’s drift from religiosity is steering us towards a less civil society based on the common good/values and looking out for one’s neighbor?

Nothing in the study shows anything near what you are saying here. I pointed that out to you and you went completely silent to my response and instead said other studies support your contentions. But those did not either. Not even close. they simply suggested teenagers who have more religious authority are less likely to have sex or have less sex partners than others. My God! your thread was a disaster to any point you tried to make.

Here are your concluding remarks:

The article as a whole seems to paint a rather dismal portrait of what is to come unless more younger people come to Christ and/or participate in religious activity of some sort that promotes community values of charity/giving beyond one’s self.

The article used a study among Orthodox Jewish Gen Z people to suggest something about a comparison between people who believe in Christ and people who do not? I told you the article was misleading and you had fallen for it (I don't knkow if the authors of the 2 original articles are deceivers or completely ignorant or stuck in motivated reasoning or what). You didn't make a case. I see you complain about Gad stereotyping but all you did was wrongly stereotype people you don't seem to understand at all.