Religion is Obsolete

[_Jersey Girl]

See? I'll go on for another 50 posts, start counting, okay?

keene is talking about gathering up information to prepare himself for parenthood and my gosh, I have to commend him on that. He has expressed so many good and sound ideas, I'm amazed by it and he's not even got a child yet to practice on! I can't count the number of times I've heard adults say "Well, these kids don't come with manuals".

Guess what? They DO come with manuals but the manuals are in the hands of teachers. The information that keene needs can be found in the college classroom. It needs to get to him. There are definitely good parenting books to be found in local bookstores but how is a new or future parent to differentiate between sound information and trendy unresearched nonsense?

There are sound principles and strategies that effectively guide children's behavior and help them to construct knowledge. Why aren't our colleges delivering coursework for parents and how best to create an interest in that for parents? Should this type of information be delivered only to the human/child development students?

What do you all think about that? What would make you as a new parent or future parent, invest your time/money in taking a class in child development or child guidance?

Jersey Girl

[_Jersey Girl]

keene: Right now, my plan is when my child does something I don't approve, I will say in a very authoritative tone "HEY! Why did you do that?" I have observed children when this happens from their parents. They look ashamed and try to apologize, but then the parents refuse the apology and ask again "Why did you do that?" The secret is to not give up in asking why. Be patient but authorative. The child will need time to develop a sentance, but they WILL think about why, and give you an answer. I've seen this behavior in children. I've also seen, much more often, parents get impatient and instead of waiting for the reason why, they give up and say "just don't do that." Then the child runs off, assured that the approval of their parents will stick even when they do bad.


Jersey Girl: What age is your hypothetical child and what have they hypothetically done?

[_Mephitus]

keene: Right now, my plan is when my child does something I don't approve, I will say in a very authoritative tone "HEY! Why did you do that?" I have observed children when this happens from their parents. They look ashamed and try to apologize, but then the parents refuse the apology and ask again "Why did you do that?" The secret is to not give up in asking why. Be patient but authorative. The child will need time to develop a sentance, but they WILL think about why, and give you an answer. I've seen this behavior in children. I've also seen, much more often, parents get impatient and instead of waiting for the reason why, they give up and say "just don't do that." Then the child runs off, assured that the approval of their parents will stick even when they do bad.


Jersey Girl: What age is your hypothetical child?

I've seen that WAY too many times. People merely want you to obey. They don't want you to know WHY to obey. I grew alot in HS and learned this at that time. that's why i never had a "rebelious" phase. I never saw a point to it.

[_keene]

See? I'll go on for another 50 posts, start counting, okay?

4

keene is talking about gathering up information to prepare himself for parenthood and my gosh, I have to commend him on that. He has expressed so many good and sound ideas, I'm amazed by it and he's not even got a child yet to practice on! I can't count the number of times I've heard adults say "Well, these kids don't come with manuals".

Guess what? They DO come with manuals but the manuals are in the hands of teachers. The information that keene needs can be found in the college classroom. It needs to get to him. There are definitely good parenting books to be found in local bookstores but how is a new or future parent to differentiate between sound information and trendy unresearched nonsense?

This is a big concern for me. There's a lot of b***s*** out there... Like on the episode of B***s*** where they talk about b***s*** child-raising products. That's such a great show :).

Right now, my current testing method is to find out what works for adults. I have found NLP to be incredibly successful in all of my own personal tests, and in what I have observed from others. How this works in a child's mind is still where I falter. So, when I study, I usually ask "Would this work on me?" If the technique wouldn't work on myself or on anyone I know, then I can reasonably assume it wouldn't work on a child.

One of my favorite techniques that I learned accidently was that of dog training. Ever see the south-park episode where the dog whisperer "trains" cartman into behaving? I have used those same techniques to incite change in my friends and family. They work on a very powerful sense. But I would hope that these techniques wouldn't be necessary.

There are sound principles and strategies that effectively guide children's behavior and help them to construct knowledge. Why aren't our colleges delivering coursework for parents and how best to create an interest in that for parents? Should this type of information be delivered only to the human/child development students?

I don't trust colleges, and wouldn't trust anything a teacher told me about kids, just in the same way I'm having trouble trusting any of the books that are out there.

What do you all think about that? What would make you as a new parent or future parent, invest your time/money in taking a class in child development or child guidance?

Jersey Girl

I would say, skip the la mas (sp?) class, and learn about this stuff instead. But still, I wouldn't trust any class on the subject.

Just on a side note, my kitten has been watching me type, and trying to attack the letters showing up on the screen. It's the cutest thing EVER!

[_keene]

Just a quick note: I just added another company to my list of examples of the Ethical evolution, and the obsolescence of laws.

http://positivesharing.com/2007/01/ask- ... -managers/

He says in this article that the manager-less model may not work in larger corporations, but AES has somewhere around 40,000 employees, with a very similar model.

I believe this evidences my points that a system can be created to bring about the higher law quickly, and that reliance on lower laws is unnecessary. It's evidenced in corporations, now if we can create a smaller model for personal living, and a greater model for governmental living, based on the same concepts, then I think we're in for something wonderful.

Ooh, I hadn't made that tie-in before... This is interesting, I think I may be on to something...

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

I agree with Keene and Jersey Girl.

The learning process is best taught through experimentation, thought, consideration, and a natural support of occuring curiousness. Through out school, i was plagued with a difficulty in following classes in the style that was traditionaly taught. But when i was given a chance to explore things in my own way and examine all the information at my disposal. I was able to learn infinately faster. One learns by doing, failing, and gaining experience. not by being told and merely placating the act of simple forced obedience.

All through grade school and junoir high. I had many problems with making the grade. By the time i hit highschool, i had learned how i processed information. And basicly sat in the back of class reading and progressing at my own pace, much faster than what the teachers and other students would do. When allowed to progress on my own, i excelled.

A similar tie can be used when considering "higher law". I know plenty of people who are bogged down by the semantics of low ideals and small things that are placed onto them. But when it comes to the higher aspects of human nature, they are the best people i know. I would say that having everything available and allowing people to progress and learn at the pace they can best handle, would grow mankind with the best intentions and understanding of said laws.

Sono
I was going to say wait until you are in college...college is a big bore to me...and I have to dumb down things
Then I remembered you went to BYU
To me college is not what I thought it was going to be...not at all.....some of the stupid asnine classes I have had to take.. Heck I could have taught the class.
some of the professors I have had to endure...just to get a piece of paper that says I am smart

I do not mean to sound full of myself but competeing for my grades has not been fun...which iis why I like honors classes
I do not have to dumb down things...

I have been in classes with some of the brightest young people that it makes me happy to have the future in their hands.
Then I have been in classes with some young people that scare me to death....thinking that our future is in their hands.

Well one thing is good no ones future is in my hands because I am forty six and no has to worry about me

[_Jersey Girl]

Quote:
There are sound principles and strategies that effectively guide children's behavior and help them to construct knowledge. Why aren't our colleges delivering coursework for parents and how best to create an interest in that for parents? Should this type of information be delivered only to the human/child development students?


keene: I don't trust colleges, and wouldn't trust anything a teacher told me about kids, just in the same way I'm having trouble trusting any of the books that are out there.


Quote:
What do you all think about that? What would make you as a new parent or future parent, invest your time/money in taking a class in child development or child guidance?

Jersey Girl


keene: I would say, skip the la mas (sp?) class, and learn about this stuff instead. But still, I wouldn't trust any class on the subject.

Just on a side note, my kitten has been watching me type, and trying to attack the letters showing up on the screen. It's the cutest thing EVER!

Jersey Girl Again: But you are going to trust them, keene. You're going to trust the classes, the people who take them, teach them, and the developmental theorists, MD's, psychiatrists, psychologists whose research they are based on. You're going to trust them when you take Lamaze class, go to OB appointments, participate in the birth of your child, when your child enters a classroom and the pediatricians office.

[_Jersey Girl]

keene: Right now, my current testing method is to find out what works for adults. I have found NLP to be incredibly successful in all of my own personal tests, and in what I have observed from others. How this works in a child's mind is still where I falter. So, when I study, I usually ask "Would this work on me?" If the technique wouldn't work on myself or on anyone I know, then I can reasonably assume it wouldn't work on a child.

Jersey Girl: What works or fails to work on an adult is far different than what is effective with a child of a specific age. The key lies in brain development. Understanding a child's cognitive abilities at various stages of development and knowing how to address/approach a situation based on that is what you need to know.

[_wenglund]

I would like to continue this discussion on our differing interpretation of the laws, but please, lets continue the discussion on our core assuptions or revelations as well. That is where I hope to find something of real value.

I am fine with that. My reason for asking you about parenting is because I view the family as a microcosm of the family of all mankind, with God as the loving parent. By looking at things on a much smaller scale, and by putting ourselves somewhat in the shoes of God, that may help us to better understand what role God may play in our lives and what kinds of structures (objectives, rules/laws/, etc.) he may put into place for our benefit.

Let me ask you about one of the foundational core assumtions. When you and your fiance decide to have a baby, what would be your reasons for having the baby, and what purpose would you have in mind for the baby (what, if anything, do you hope the baby will achieve during this life)? In other words, from God's perspective, why do you believe mankind is born on earth, and to what end are they born?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

keene: Right now, my current testing method is to find out what works for adults. I have found NLP to be incredibly successful in all of my own personal tests, and in what I have observed from others. How this works in a child's mind is still where I falter. So, when I study, I usually ask "Would this work on me?" If the technique wouldn't work on myself or on anyone I know, then I can reasonably assume it wouldn't work on a child.

Jersey Girl: What works or fails to work on an adult is far different than what is effective with a child of a specific age. The key lies in brain development. Understanding a child's cognitive abilities at various stages of development and knowing how to address/approach a situation based on that is what you need to know.

I agree with Jersey Girl.

Studies have shown (and my personal experience has born this out), that children learn somewhat differently than adults. The way children learn is called "pedagogy" and the way adults learn is called androgogy. For a brief description of each, see: HERE

Thanks, -Wade Englund-