Wanna talk about the Bible?

[_Gazelam]

GIMR

Beware of those Jesus bookstores, man. A lot of them have those "cult" sections, and Mormons are always in there. I never liked that part of the bookstore. I actually have to take a class that's supposed to examine the beliefs of some cults. I wonder what they'll say about the LDS church...and how many corrections I'll have to make.

Yeh, I peruse that section when I go in there to see if theres anything good. I saw one had a thing on the end of it where one of the guys that posted on ZLMB had an e-mail conversation with the anti-mormon author and he publishs it in the back. I should have picked it up. Sometimes my eyes are bigger than my wallet and I have to be more choosey in what I buy.

The Born again church I visit from time to time is having a cult class that will in no doubt have a section on Mormons. I took a class from the preacher teaching the class and was planning on asking him if I could come in that day to answer questions. I would love to do that, but I wouldent want to take the class and sit through alot of the other stuff.


When do I yell? lol. If I'm compared to a preacher, can I be the guy from the Neil Diamond song about "Brother Loves travelling salvation show"? I'd like to hear that people pack up their babies and grab the old ladies to come hear me speak. : )

Gaz

[_rcrocket]

Yes, you are a lousy lawyer. You have no ability to successfully defend your faith.

. . .

P, you're out of your league.

Hopefully we can get beyond my inadequacies to answers to my questions. I don't assert that you are a racist. I don't assert that you are a slut. I don't care anything about your personal circumstances, really. I think that continued rudeness is a sideshow and a distraction and perhaps a fear of engagement.

Again, I ask, in a little different way, maybe a little more clearly: Do you think that sexual morality is a necessary component of true Christian discipleship? Yes or no?

After all, this thread is about talking about the Bible. Are you ashamed of the Gospel of Christ?

P, do you know anything about marriage in the Ancient Near East? Was it anything like the legal process that we go through today? Or did the man simply go through a ritual, take the woman into his tent, bed her, and have done with it? Outside of the feasts and dowries, what was done? I'm curious to see what you know.

What I would also like to know is how the hell you got on this subject? If the TBMs aren't calling me racist, they're insinuating I'm a slut.

P, have you ever walked outside the TBM world?

Do you know how many students of theology there are who look at Paul and the Bible as a whole with a critical eye? That doesn't mean they're looking to disparage, that means that they use their brains, and put things in the proper context. What have you learned about ancient Israelite culture outside of what your leaders put before you? What?

In answer to your questions: 1. I have historical works on my shelf about marriage customs in the middle east, but I don't purport to be an expert. And I don't care; this thread is about the Bible.

In terms of having ever walked outside the TBM world? The answer is yes, but my question really relates to the Bible.


P

[_Sam Harris]

Onto the word theos, used in 1 Cor. 8...again, you had to select what best fits your view out of the many definitions for this word...but just because you chose it doesn't make it right, anymore than your claiming your church is the restored church makes it so...just wanted to point that out to you..

But the one thing you failed to point out is that idols or graven images is not one of the selections in the Lexicon. Another nice thing about a Lexicon (like Strong's and Thayer's) is that not only are possible definitions given, but they are actually applied to many verses. So here we have one of the most popular nonLDS Christian Lexicons taking the LDS view or at least not contradicting it.

Of course we need not have consulted the Lexicon at all but simply looked at the grammar which distinguishes between idols and real and divine Gods anyway.

by the way. I notice GIMR still has no answer for John 20:17, that Jesus has a God and it's the same God as our God. So now we know that Jesus is God (John 1) AND Jesus has a God. Plurality of Gods, just as the first Christians taught.

*sigh* Your claiming bad and premature victories is cute, BCSpace.

Please point out the Heavenly Mother in the Bible.

And I answered your question on John 20:17, but folks who are enmeshed with their view of their religion sometimes lose literacy. I understand.

No, the first Christians didn't teach plurality of gods, they didn't teach that you get your own planet, they didn't fortell Joseph Smith, the list goes on.

But I'll throw you a bone, since you are so very hungry for validation. Since we are made in the image of God, yes, we do have God within us...in a sense we are God. Probably hard for you to grasp...

But we are part of an precious and integrated whole. Pumping yourself up with cheers of elitism and one true churches isn't what fits the bill.

Until later.

[_Sam Harris]

Yes, you are a lousy lawyer. You have no ability to successfully defend your faith.

. . .

P, you're out of your league.

Hopefully we can get beyond my inadequacies to answers to my questions. I don't assert that you are a racist. I don't assert that you are a slut. I don't care anything about your personal circumstances, really. I think that continued rudeness is a sideshow and a distraction and perhaps a fear of engagement.

Again, I ask, in a little different way, maybe a little more clearly: Do you think that sexual morality is a necessary component of true Christian discipleship? Yes or no?

After all, this thread is about talking about the Bible. Are you ashamed of the Gospel of Christ?

P, do you know anything about marriage in the Ancient Near East? Was it anything like the legal process that we go through today? Or did the man simply go through a ritual, take the woman into his tent, bed her, and have done with it? Outside of the feasts and dowries, what was done? I'm curious to see what you know.

What I would also like to know is how the hell you got on this subject? If the TBMs aren't calling me racist, they're insinuating I'm a slut.

P, have you ever walked outside the TBM world?

Do you know how many students of theology there are who look at Paul and the Bible as a whole with a critical eye? That doesn't mean they're looking to disparage, that means that they use their brains, and put things in the proper context. What have you learned about ancient Israelite culture outside of what your leaders put before you? What?

In answer to your questions: 1. I have historical works on my shelf about marriage customs in the middle east, but I don't purport to be an expert. And I don't care; this thread is about the Bible.

In terms of having ever walked outside the TBM world? The answer is yes, but my question really relates to the Bible.


P

Yet another cute fundamentalist dodge. You guys make an art of this? Ancient Israelite marriage not a part of the Bible? Yet another blunder in the spiritual courtroom.

Plutarch, define sexual morality in a sense that everyone can agree with you. Prostitution is not moral. However, responsible sex between two consenting adults I don't have a problem with. Young children having sex, I have a problem with. Fundies like you are willing to splatter sin over everyone who doesn't fit your view, i.e., waiting until marriage.

In today's society, waiting is a very wise choice. But out here in the real world Plu, married folks are getting AIDS, married folks are still suffering from those same godly punishments as the rest of those promniscuous heathens.

You had no right to ask me about my sexuality. I understand that in certain professions it is necessary to try to undermine someone in a crossexamination to prove guilt or a point. But I am not in your courtroom, so leave my character and personal life out of it. If I have not answered your question in clear enough terms, you're sorry.

As far as marriage, if this thread is about the Bible, how can you not include Israelite marriage in the topic? Other topics were covered such as suzerain treaties, the various types of psalms, and theories on how and when the Bible was written. Why don't you care about this one topic, when you have information on hand to address it?

:-)

Y'all are so cute. Fundies are an intersting species. No one of integrity can really defend fundamentalism, so you dodge, play word games, and ask strange questions about people's sexuality in order to draw attention away from bigotry. Very nice. But remember, I have never told you that you do not know God, whereas the TBM doctrine says that very thing about me and all other people who are not "Mormons in good standing".

[_Sam Harris]

GIMR

Beware of those Jesus bookstores, man. A lot of them have those "cult" sections, and Mormons are always in there. I never liked that part of the bookstore. I actually have to take a class that's supposed to examine the beliefs of some cults. I wonder what they'll say about the LDS church...and how many corrections I'll have to make.

Yeh, I peruse that section when I go in there to see if theres anything good. I saw one had a thing on the end of it where one of the guys that posted on ZLMB had an e-mail conversation with the anti-mormon author and he publishs it in the back. I should have picked it up. Sometimes my eyes are bigger than my wallet and I have to be more choosey in what I buy.

The Born again church I visit from time to time is having a cult class that will in no doubt have a section on Mormons. I took a class from the preacher teaching the class and was planning on asking him if I could come in that day to answer questions. I would love to do that, but I wouldent want to take the class and sit through alot of the other stuff.


When do I yell? lol. If I'm compared to a preacher, can I be the guy from the Neil Diamond song about "Brother Loves travelling salvation show"? I'd like to hear that people pack up their babies and grab the old ladies to come hear me speak. : )

Gaz

Lemme know what they say in the cult class if you get wind of their teachings. Something tells me I'm gonna piss off a few Regent students should I have to take that class and they get on Mormonism. Sorry folks, no goats or chickens sacrificed in the temples, no they don't dance around naked, smearing the blood on them.

You don't yell, you just...preach...you drone on sometimes. And those pictures! My goodness, I'd fall asleep if I weren't typing. I'd fall asleep on some sundays when I visit other churches if the preachers weren't so freakin loud. And they go on for hours! What is it that you can't study on a weekday that I have to sit for four hours in here? They don't even have blocks like in the LDS church, you just sit there till your butt gets numb.

Eyes bigger than wallet in bookstores is a common thing for me. That's why I go to the library, but then I end up owing them what the books are worth in late fees because I have so many. I'm trying to reform.

[_rcrocket]

Yet another cute fundamentalist dodge. You guys make an art of this? Ancient Israelite marriage not a part of the Bible? Yet another blunder in the spiritual courtroom.

Plutarch, define sexual morality in a sense that everyone can agree with you. Prostitution is not moral. However, responsible sex between two consenting adults I don't have a problem with. Young children having sex, I have a problem with. Fundies like you are willing to splatter sin over everyone who doesn't fit your view, i.e., waiting until marriage.

. . . .

You had no right to ask me about my sexuality. I understand that in certain professions it is necessary to try to undermine someone in a crossexamination to prove guilt or a point.

. . . .

Y'all are so cute. Fundies are an intersting species. No one of integrity can really defend fundamentalism, so you dodge, play word games, and ask strange questions about people's sexuality in order to draw attention away from bigotry. Very nice.

I don't recall ever asking you anything about your sexuality. As I have stated three times now, I don't care one whit about your life's experiences. You've treated me evilly, and I see no reason to do the same to you because it shows weakness. I urge you to focus upon the content of my posts rather than the kind of person, or lawyer, you think I am.

It seems you refuse to answer a simple question about your theology without extraordinary definition on my part. Fine.

Marriage, as the term is used in the New Testament, indicates that it is a religious or civil contract between a man and a woman requiring a bill of divorcement to sever. (John 2:1-12; Metzger, The Oxford Companion to the Bible, p. 497.) Roman civil law at the time of Jesus contemplated a formal license of marriage, and did not consider "living together" as sufficient to overcome the stigma of concubinage. Robin Lane Fox, Pagans & Christians, p. 308. As you probably recall, Augustine writes extensively about his mistress and conventions regarding cohabitation and fornication.

Thus, it is sufficient to say that the fornication of which Paul speaks, and the adultery of which Jesus speaks, are sexual relationships outside of a contract breakable only by a bill of divorcement.

Do you think that a committed Christian can knowingly live in a state of fornication and yet claim saved status?

P

[_Coggins7]

bc, meet GIMR. Tranquilizers are availablel with two forms of ID and a baptismal certificate.

[_Coggins7]

Need we remind a Theology major to look up 'racism' in the dictionary? Theology describing the origins of skin color is not racism.

It is if you are a modern political ideologue with a highly sensitive belly button that when pushed, cries "RACISM!". Race, in our modern cultural situation, is for some, not something one can have a creative, intellectually substantive discussion on, but a totem. Unfortunately, there is little chance of working aournd such a fixation.

When bc says that "there is no racism in LDS doctrine", I believe that what he is getting at is that, despite what some GA's may have said by way of explanation of the "priesthood ban" in the past, the actual doctrine regarding blacks as a people, as with all other nations and kindreds, is a matter of lineage, not race (indeed, core Mormon doctrine never addresses the concept, nor does the Book of Mormon).

The entire history of ancient Israel can cnly be understood in that context.

[_Coggins7]

If it hasn't become apparant by now, GIMR has a geat deal of baggage to unload that has nothing whatever to do with the Church or its beliefs but which is being used as a sacrificial goat for precisely that purpose. Much of what she posts throughout this message board is about her, not criticims of the church which can be approached from an intellectual standpoint without recourse to the dissemination of vast quantities of personal psycholgical material.

I appreciate that life may have sucked for her in the past, but using the Church as a displaced object of rage and recrimination against it is not the answer to these issues.


Loran

[_rcrocket]

If it hasn't become apparant by now, GIMR has a geat deal of baggage to unload that has nothing whatever to do with the Church or its beliefs but which is being used as a sacrificial goat for precisely that purpose. Much of what she posts throughout this message board is about her, not criticims of the church which can be approached from an intellectual standpoint without recourse to the dissemination of vast quantities of personal psycholgical material.

I appreciate that life may have sucked for her in the past, but using the Church as a displaced object of rage and recrimination against it is not the answer to these issues.


Loran

Perhaps. But let's see if she has the courage to engage me upon the topic of this thread. I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, but so far she is doing a lot of hand-waving to avoid being pinned down.

P