A 'Historic' General Conference?

[_twinkie]

James Bond, Let me know if they announce this church, I will sign up.
C) both Target and Popeyes Chicken (The Targeted Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Biscuit Eaters)

[_Trinity]

Wasn't the H(with a capital H) moment the rededication of the tabernacle? How can something that is a replay be historic?

[_Jason Bourne]

Well another GC is over and I must say I pretty much enjoyed. Nothing earth shattering but good basic all around talks that were for the most part encouraging and uplifting. I thought Elder Holland on watching what we say and how words can be abusive, Oaks on divorce and Sunday Morning by Elder Faust on forgivenessand the last two talks by Elder Uchdorf and Nelson on repentance were all wonderful.

I know many here despise President Hinckley but I don't and kind of feel an affinity towards him as very old man who still works hard. He still has his humor as he noted in one of his talk that he is now very old, that last leaf on the tree but there were a lot of people listening that may well go before he does. As a Church leader he has been a great part on my life for most of it.

So, I enjoyed things and listened with interest.

That may surprise a few particularly Coggins, my self appointed nemisis and judge.

[_Sethbag]

I don't dislike Gordon B. Hinckley. I think most of the people who come across as disliking him do so only because he's the leader of the church, and the church isn't true. So he takes the blame. You know, the buck stops here and all that.

I watched the two sessions today with my family, and I didn't mind them. I minded in a sense, but it wasn't overtly offensive or anything. You can tell that the good things in the talks are the result of well-meaning people doing their best to help make this church something good and positive. Be that as it may, however, it may be as good and positive as all the well-meaning members can make it, but it will still not be "true" in the sense that they mean it.

I did cringe a bit today during the talk where that one GA mentioned an Asian military officer who converted to the LDS church while in the US for some training. He said he'd probably be in big trouble with his family, and his career would probably be destroyed, but none of that matters, because "it's true isn't it?" I was thinking no, it's not true, and for that untruth you just put your family relationship into a big ditch and gave up your career. That's an insidious wrong done by the church, however unintentionally.

Then another GA went through the whole First Vision and restoration of the priesthood thing, and I'm thinking HAHAHAHAHAHA and then Peter, James, and John showed up and bestowed the Melchizedek Priesthood when? But the GA was teaching the "faithful history" version. Kinda funny. A sister-in-law of mine, who was also there at another family member's house where we all were for the second session, kind of gave me that look during that talk. She doesn't believe in the church anymore either, but her husband does, her whole family does on her side, and she feels really stuck.

Anyhow, I really like GBH. He's a decent guy, has always had a sense of humor, and I always liked hearing him speak more than some of the others. I don't have anything against GBH specifically, except that he's the leader of a vast church doing it's best to convert more and more people into a system of untruth and false beliefs. There's something deeply wrong about that. I do recognize that GBH doesn't do it to be wrong, he does it because he really believes it. But that doesn't make it not wrong on some level.

[_Gazelam]

Peter, James, and John showed up and bestowed the Melchizedek Priesthood when?

On or around July 2nd 1830 while on the run from the mob and trying to get home.

Addison Everett stated:

Joseph & Oliver went into the woods a few rods, it being night, and they traveled until Oliver was exhausted & Joseph almost Caried him through mud and water. They traveled all night and just at the break of day Oliver gave out entirely and exclaimed )! Lord! How long Brother Joseph have we got to endure this thing; Brother Joseph said that at that very time Peter James & John came to them and Ordained them to the Apostleship.

[_harmony]

Peter, James, and John showed up and bestowed the Melchizedek Priesthood when?

On or around July 2nd 1830 while on the run from the mob and trying to get home.

Addison Everett stated:

Joseph & Oliver went into the woods a few rods, it being night, and they traveled until Oliver was exhausted & Joseph almost Caried him through mud and water. They traveled all night and just at the break of day Oliver gave out entirely and exclaimed )! Lord! How long Brother Joseph have we got to endure this thing; Brother Joseph said that at that very time Peter James & John came to them and Ordained them to the Apostleship.

We've had this discussion before, Gaz. Addison Everett hasn't been canonized that I know of, so his account is worth absolutely nothing. The restoration of the Melchizedek priesthood is not in the canon and is not doctrinal, and you might as well get used to it.

[_Sethbag]

Peter, James, and John showed up and bestowed the Melchizedek Priesthood when?

On or around July 2nd 1830 while on the run from the mob and trying to get home.

Addison Everett stated:

Joseph & Oliver went into the woods a few rods, it being night, and they traveled until Oliver was exhausted & Joseph almost Caried him through mud and water. They traveled all night and just at the break of day Oliver gave out entirely and exclaimed )! Lord! How long Brother Joseph have we got to endure this thing; Brother Joseph said that at that very time Peter James & John came to them and Ordained them to the Apostleship.

So you're admitting that the Church was created, and Joseph and Oliver recognized as the First and Second Elders of the Church, without anyone holding the Melchizedek Priesthood?

[_maklelan]

I don't dislike Gordon B. Hinckley. I think most of the people who come across as disliking him do so only because he's the leader of the church, and the church isn't true. So he takes the blame. You know, the buck stops here and all that.

I watched the two sessions today with my family, and I didn't mind them. I minded in a sense, but it wasn't overtly offensive or anything. You can tell that the good things in the talks are the result of well-meaning people doing their best to help make this church something good and positive. Be that as it may, however, it may be as good and positive as all the well-meaning members can make it, but it will still not be "true" in the sense that they mean it.

I did cringe a bit today during the talk where that one GA mentioned an Asian military officer who converted to the LDS church while in the US for some training. He said he'd probably be in big trouble with his family, and his career would probably be destroyed, but none of that matters, because "it's true isn't it?" I was thinking no, it's not true, and for that untruth you just put your family relationship into a big ditch and gave up your career. That's an insidious wrong done by the church, however unintentionally.

Then another GA went through the whole First Vision and restoration of the priesthood thing, and I'm thinking HAHAHAHAHAHA and then Peter, James, and John showed up and bestowed the Melchizedek Priesthood when? But the GA was teaching the "faithful history" version. Kinda funny. A sister-in-law of mine, who was also there at another family member's house where we all were for the second session, kind of gave me that look during that talk. She doesn't believe in the church anymore either, but her husband does, her whole family does on her side, and she feels really stuck.

Anyhow, I really like GBH. He's a decent guy, has always had a sense of humor, and I always liked hearing him speak more than some of the others. I don't have anything against GBH specifically, except that he's the leader of a vast church doing it's best to convert more and more people into a system of untruth and false beliefs. There's something deeply wrong about that. I do recognize that GBH doesn't do it to be wrong, he does it because he really believes it. But that doesn't make it not wrong on some level.

I'm just going to quickly point out something of which I've taken note. I try to never state something absolutely when it comes to the veracity of the church. I may not be 100%, but I try to avoid saying something is true; rather, I try to say that I believe something is true, or it's true for me. I don't believe in an argument I've ever said that anything is conclusive or definite. I believe this shows a mutual respect and makes discussion and debate an enjoyable process instead of just two people butting heads. The above bold statements show me that Seth is not interested in any real debate or consideration of anything that transcends his own opinion. He has his opinion and that's all that matters to him. I don't think that's a good way to approach debate or discussion with people who have different feelings. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it's not true, just like the fact that I do believe it doesn't make it true for you.

[_harmony]

I'm just going to quickly point out something of which I've taken note. I try to never state something absolutely when it comes to the veracity of the church. I may not be 100%, but I try to avoid saying something is true; rather, I try to say that I believe something is true, or it's true for me. I don't believe in an argument I've ever said that anything is conclusive or definite. I believe this shows a mutual respect and makes discussion and debate an enjoyable process instead of just two people butting heads. The above bold statements show me that Seth is not interested in any real debate or consideration of anything that transcends his own opinion. He has his opinion and that's all that matters to him. I don't think that's a good way to approach debate or discussion with people who have different feelings. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it's not true, just like the fact that I do believe it doesn't make it true for you.

Perhaps you have not, Maklelan, but our leaders certainly have. And since Seth wasn't conversing with you, perhaps we can give him the benefit of the doubt, and assume he was addressing the royal We (as in our LDS leaders), who definitely have come down hard on the side of the church being true, not just that they believe it's true.

[_Bond...James Bond]

James Bond, Let me know if they announce this church, I will sign up.
C) both Target and Popeyes Chicken (The Targeted Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Biscuit Eaters)

Consider it done, and the only thing we hold sacred is the idea that chicken should be plentiful with extra biscuits for all.