The Real Reason I Left

[_Blixa]

Nevermind. Figured it out. Duh.

[_wenglund]

Your self-righteous bombast notwithstanding... blah blah blah

So what you're saying is that you have never done anything to actually live the ideal of self-sacrefice. Instead you just talk about it.

And, as for how-all I and others may have put our "ass on the line", we don't (or at least I don't) view ourselves as accountable to people, such as yourself, who post anonymously (some would say cowardly) on the internet,

So says the guy posting anonymously on the internet. Pot+Kettle=Black much? I mean, you're trying to say I am so how "cowardly" for doing the exact same thing you are, wondertard.

but rather to our God, our own consciences, and those whose opinions we actually respect and value.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that you place pesting people about what a good little chrisitan you are on the same level as someone who places themselves in harms way for the public good? How retardedly self-rightious of you.

Ok, explain how holding yourself accountable to the Magical Sky Pixie places you at risk of dying for "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", Wenglund. Seriously, I gotta hear this...

We obviously understand "virtue" quite differently. And, I am fine with leaving it at that.

You ain't getting off that easy, Sport. You stated your position, now be a man and justify it. Justify how "virtue" or "chastity" are more valuable than human life.

First of all, I am not posting anonymously. My full and real-life name is attached conspicuously to each and every one of my posts (how you missed it is anyone's guess). So there is no "pot" on my side, as you falsely assumed.

Secondly, no, I am not saying I haven't done anything to live the ideal of self-sacrifice. I am saying that I choose not to cast those pearls before swine, so to speak.

Third, I have stated as much of my point of view to you as I think you are deserving and capable of grasping. And, unlike you, my "manliness" isn't contingient upon responding to juvenile taunts or continuing counterproductive discussions.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Mr. Coffee]

Secondly, no, I am not saying I haven't done anything to live the ideal of self-sacrifice. I am saying that I choose not to cast those pearls before swine, so to speak.

Dude, you equated going to church as being the same as military, law enforcement, or EMS service. You're a twit. Worse, you're a backpeddling twit.

Third, I have stated as much of my point of view to you as I think you are deserving and capable of grasping. And, unlike you, my "manliness" isn't contingient upon responding to juvenile taunts or continuing counterproductive discussions.

Yes, you've made it quite clear that you hold the victim of rape as responsible as the person that raped them. That tells me all sorts of things about what sort of person you are. Instead of defending your positions or admiting that they are wrong, you instead choose to pull the "You're a meanie, I'm not gonna play anymore, waaaaaa" tactic famous in playground sandboxes world wide.

Oh, my... Wenglund, you're sooooooooo manly!

[_rcrocket]

Oh, my... Wenglund, you're sooooooooo manly!

Don't you want to use your real name when you publicly castigate somebody who uses his real name?

rcrocket

[_wenglund]

Would anyone else here besides me (and I suspect Nehor) be willing to fight to the death for safety, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

I'm not sure what this has to do with a discussion about rape. And when did you sign up for military service? Or volunteer firefighter? Or volunteer EMT? I have only admiration for those who actually do put their lives on the line, whether in military service (in my family, that would be my son, my brother, my dad) or as volunteers (in my life, that would be my husband). I find the pathetic numbers of LDS who serve in the military to be lamentable, and just one more example of how we pound our chests, telling the world what a patriotic people we are, yet when push comes to shove, we cringe from our duty. So please expound on your service to our country, Wade. Are you in the National Guard?

It has been my experience that those who actually have been willing to sacrifice their lives, and who have put their willingness into action, tend to be the least likely to engage in the kind of self-righteous and sweepingly dismissive rants like the above. I certainly am disinclined to do so myself.

Rather, it is too oft, and ironically, the penchant of raging hypocrites who are in the least position to say and ask.

Whether that is the case here or not, is not for me to judge.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_harmony]

Would anyone else here besides me (and I suspect Nehor) be willing to fight to the death for safety, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

I'm not sure what this has to do with a discussion about rape. And when did you sign up for military service? Or volunteer firefighter? Or volunteer EMT? I have only admiration for those who actually do put their lives on the line, whether in military service (in my family, that would be my son, my brother, my dad) or as volunteers (in my life, that would be my husband). I find the pathetic numbers of LDS who serve in the military to be lamentable, and just one more example of how we pound our chests, telling the world what a patriotic people we are, yet when push comes to shove, we cringe from our duty. So please expound on your service to our country, Wade. Are you in the National Guard?

It has been my experience that those who actually have been willing to sacrifice their lives, and who have put their willingness into action, tend to be the least likely to engage in the kind of self-righteous and sweepingly dismissive rants like the above. I certainly am disinclined to do so myself.

Rather, it is too oft, and ironically, the penchant of raging hypocrites who are in the least position to say and ask.

Whether that is the case here or not, is not for me to judge.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

And here I was so hoping you were in the Guard. I am destined to be disappointed, I guess.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

Would anyone else here besides me (and I suspect Nehor) be willing to fight to the death for safety, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

Is that not what a woman being raped would be fighting for in addition to her virtue (I understand "virtue" in such cases to mean the sanctity of one's person is left unviolated. I can think of no greater violation of one's person than rape, except murder. I have friends who had their homes broken into and things stolen. They felt incredibly violated, and even used the term "rape" to describe how they felt.)

Just a thought.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Are you even thinking while you write this? If murder is a greater violation than rape, why should anyone choose murder over rape?

[_wenglund]

Blah blah blah... Retarded Attempt to try and justify placing blame for being victimized on the victim... blah blah blah

Wenglung, are you seriously saying that the victim of a rape is at all responsible or somehow wrong for being the victim of a crime?

No, obviously not.

Because that is precisely what saying someone is less "virtuious" for having been victimized is, jackass.

Wrong again. Perhaps in your extrodinarily narrow and uninformed world view that may be so. But, not as I understand the concept.

You're also saying that it is somehow more "virtuious" for the victim to needlessly die in order to maintain their "virtue".

Wrong again. I have said nothing of the sort. I do not view fighting for one's life, virtue, and so forth, as "needless". Unlike perhaps you, I actually believe there is great value in life, virtue, and so forth, sufficient to at times make fighting and death needful.

The woman being raped has one of two choices, either surrender or die. You're saying that you'd rather them die. Full stop, end of story.

Wrong again. I am saying that I value the sanctity of women (their life and virtue and so forth) such that I believe it worth dying for, and I would honor those who may choose to fight even to the death to protect the sanctity of women.

Let me ask you something then... Let's say your wife/girlfriend/mother/grandmother was raped. Would you rather them die over some BS about "virtue" or would you rather have your loved one still alive?

Unlike with you, I wouldn't make the issue about me and what I may or may not want. Rather, I would honor and respect those women in whatever choice they may hypothetically be forced to make. I trust that were I in a position to prevent them from being raped, and were it to be at the expense of my own life, I would prefer to die rather than their being subjected to such hideous violation.

How about you? Would you be willing to do the same? And, if so, then why would you deny the same to the victims, themselves?

Accordingly, some of us believe a rapist can sexually and otherwise violate and mare his victim, particularly through dehumanizing hatred and power and control, and in that way rob the woman of her virtue and chastity (Think of it like a beautiful, clean, and immaculate home that has been soiled and thrashed by a filthy intruder, robbing the home not only of some of its possessions, but also to some degree robbing it of its beauty, cleanliness, and immaculance). Whereas others of us do not view "rape" as a mutually willful illicite sexual act (certainly not on the part of the victim), and thus the victim does not lose her virtue or chastity.

So you believe that rape is a consentual act?! What the F**K, over? It's "mutually willful" but not on the part of the victim?

Wrong again. What part of "certainly not on the part of the victim" do you not understand? Obviously, I don't view rape as concentual. The only "will" that is consenting to rape is the will of the rapist's. There is no "mutual will" about it. For there to be "mutual willful", would require mutual consent (or, if you are too dense to understand what that means, it means that both people want to do it). Clearly the rape victim is not consenting to the rape, but "wills" strongly not to do it. Do you now understand, Nimrod?

Your "clean house" analogy fails. Much the same as a house can be cleaned using a few household chemicals and a little elbow greese, a rape victim can go one to lead a healthy and happy life with the aid of compassion and counciling. But under you're retarded rationale, instead of cleaning the house up you should just burn it to the ground instead.

Wrong again (as expected). The so-called "clean house" analogy was intended to illuminate how "virtue" may be aversely affected by violations and and unwanted intrusions, and in no way was intended to suggest that a clean house is worth dying for or even burnt down for--though, to the home owners who may think the sanctity of their homes worth putting up a fight for, I certainly won't falsely judge their rationale as "retarded".

This is not about one or the other of us being unreasonable or wrong. Rather, this is about differing points of view--each reasonable and correct in their own rights.

Differing points of view my hairy Marine ass. You just stated that you believe that the victim of rape is somehow responsibile for it and should face social penilties for it, assclown.

Wrong again (at least you are consistent). I can't control for the bizzarre and false conclusions you jump to. I said nothing of the sort.

At least that is how I tolerantly view it.

Which is just a few steps shy of how tolerant a Shiara court treats a rape victim in Iran...

Oh, on a side note, I find it deliciously ironic that you tried to chid me for "cowardace" for using the anonymity of the internet, yet you're using it yourself and worse yet, you're posting as "hidden".

Wrong again (gee, don't you get tired of being so stupid?) Again, if you look a little more carefully at the bottom of each of my posts, you will see my real name (Wade Englund--I bolded it here in case you have trouble seeing it), which to those who have an IQ above room tempature, means that I clearly not posting anonymously nor am I supposedly "hidden". If that simple and obvious fact still excapes you, then I can't imagine what more I can do to help your lack of comprehension.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

Secondly, no, I am not saying I haven't done anything to live the ideal of self-sacrifice. I am saying that I choose not to cast those pearls before swine, so to speak.

Dude, you equated going to church as being the same as military, law enforcement, or EMS service. You're a twit. Worse, you're a backpeddling twit.

Wrong again (is that your only "talent"?). I have not specifically equated a thing. All I have suggested is that active willingness to sacrifice one's life goes beyond military service. Now, I don't expect that you are capable of understanding the vast difference between me saying that and you saying what you mis-claimed I did, but there it is.

Third, I have stated as much of my point of view to you as I think you are deserving and capable of grasping. And, unlike you, my "manliness" isn't contingient upon responding to juvenile taunts or continuing counterproductive discussions.

Yes, you've made it quite clear that you hold the victim of rape as responsible as the person that raped them. That tells me all sorts of things about what sort of person you are. Instead of defending your positions or admiting that they are wrong, you instead choose to pull the "You're a meanie, I'm not gonna play anymore, waaaaaa" tactic famous in playground sandboxes world wide.

Wrong again...as iterated and reiterated, and to no avail, thereby further evincing that discussing this topic with you is a complete and utter waste of time--though, out of respect I will let you have the last word if you wish.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Jersey Girl]

“Note that the Lord did not forgive the woman of her serious sin. He commanded quietly, but forcefully. "Go, and sin no more." Even Christ cannot forgive one in sin.”

Of course, you realize he was just giving his opinion as a man?