?????But they are really nice people.?????

[_The Nehor]

God hates all the people you dislike...

Silly

Yes, but haven't you met anyone who thinks that but never lets the insanity of it trouble their conscious mind?

[_Hoops]

God hates all the people you dislike...

Silly

Yes, but haven't you met anyone who thinks that but never lets the insanity of it trouble their conscious mind?

Sure. I thought it was you thinking, and, honestly, it surprised me.

[_The Nehor]

Sure. I thought it was you thinking, and, honestly, it surprised me.

That I would think of that, that I thought that way, or that I'm thinking at all? :)

[_Jason Bourne]

Do you deny that Mormons are taught this? Mormons are taught to show other people how happy they are in order in the hopes of encouraging missionary opportunities?

I think Mormons are taught to be nice and that it may help with missionary opportunities but they are not, nor never have been taught to be nice just to get missionary opportunities.

[_Jason Bourne]

No problem, stu. You have a history of being very reasonable, and I felt certain you would pay attention to the qualifiers this time - as well as my caution that I did not intend this to apply to all Mormons in some general fashion.

I am curious as to one point in particular - do you agree that LDS are taught to present a happy face to the world so the world will wonder why they are so happy, so hopefully they will be interested in the church?

AS noted above I do not agree. I have never heard any direction that says "Now make sure you present that happy face to the world so everyone will want to know more about the LDS Church." I do agree that we are taught that we should be happy and act happy and have much to be happy about and that if one sets a good example people may be more apt to listen to the gospel message.

I think there is a big difference.

[_Jason Bourne]

And if I recall it was Jesus that sai Let your light shine, don't hide you candle under a bushel and a city that is on a hill cannot be hid. This all speaks to setting a good example.

[_beastie]

I would be lying if I said that I hadn't heard such at some point and time. But, from the Church's standpoint, I don't believe it is advocating a superficial presentation of happiness. From a believer’s standpoint, that “light” that you’re allowing to shine for others is believed to be tangible and real. I do agree that often people probably put on a false light (maybe an LED when they should be displaying an incandescent), which is unfortunate. It is one of the reasons I often become bored at church (there seems to be this “face to meet the faces” [again, my hat off to Mr. Elliot], that everyone puts on with their Sunday best. Sometimes I long for nitty-gritty, punch-you-in-the-face, someone-please-help-me, reality.

I didn’t mean to imply that it is advocating superficial happiness. But the message that is consistently presented over the pulpit is that LDS ought to be the happiest of all people, because they have the true gospel. Reality is that some LDS – whether by reason of genetics or circumstances – really don’t feel that happy. But they are still hearing the same message everyone else is hearing: LDS ought to be the happiest people on the earth, and LDS ought to let that happiness shine. Then missionary opportunities will arise as people wonder how to get that great happiness.

It seems to me that part of the LDS culture is to hide things like doubt and unhappiness, perhaps out of shame. It’s just not an acceptable part of the culture to doubt or be unhappy. This puts a lot of pressure on people.

I remember two events, in particular, that taught me this lesson as a Mormon. I had a very difficult mission. Many French people were not particularly happy with Americans in general, and in specific, they didn’t want Americans trying to change their religion. We spent endless hours knocking on doors only to have them slammed in our faces. It was grueling. I became depressed, not because it was hard work, but we were constantly told if we had enough faith and worked hard enough, we would find the right people. People who were anxiously awaiting “the truth”. Yet it just didn’t happen. My mission was one of the most difficult experiences of my life.

When I came back from my mission, for my homecoming talk (in the old days, I’m not sure they still do this), I refused to do the normal spiel about my mission being the “best two years of my life”. (or 18 months) Instead, I talked about the challenge of depression. I had no idea how it would be received, but I didn’t care at that point. Afterwards, several people came up to me and thanked me for openly talking about an issue they or a family member struggled with, and felt ashamed for.

Years later, as a Relief Society teacher, I did something similar in a realistic talk about how hard it was to be a mother of three young children (under 4) and how sometimes I wanted to run away, and how sometimes I wondered what was wrong with me. Once again, many sisters came up to me afterwards and expressed their gratitude.

We all know life can be hard, and being Mormon doesn’t somehow make it less hard. In fact, many things about Mormonism can add stress to quite a few people– paying ten percent of your income, having a larger family, trying to support a family on one income, and having a part-time, unpaid job at church. But through all this, LDS are consistently given the message they ought to be the happiest people on the earth.

Do any of you dispute this?

Of course I haven’t been active in church for over a decade, perhaps things have changed. And perhaps wards in more well-to-do areas may not have quite as many stressed members as my ward did.

[_beastie]

I think Mormons are taught to be nice and that it may help with missionary opportunities but they are not, nor never have been taught to be nice just to get missionary opportunities.

I didn't say they were.

[_beastie]

Here's what I'm talking about. I just typed in "happiest" in the search engine for the library of LDS.org, and found all of these within minutes:

The person who enjoys the experience of the knowledge of the Kingdom of God on the earth, and at the same time has the love of God within him, is the happiest of any individuals on the earth (DBY, 235).

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young
Happiness and Social Enjoyment

Brigham Young has said, “The person who enjoys the experience of the knowledge of the Kingdom of God on the earth, and at the same time has the love of God within him, is the happiest of any individuals on the earth. …

“You never saw a true Saint in the world that had sorrow, neither can you find one. If persons are destitute of the fountain of living water, or the principles of eternal life, then they are sorrowful. If the words of life dwell within us, and we have the hope of eternal life and glory, and let that spark within us kindle to a flame, to the consuming of the least and last remains of selfishness, we never can walk in darkness and are strangers to doubt and fear. …

“It does make the devil mad. That is true, it makes him mad that he cannot afflict this people so as to make them have a sad countenance. …

“Where is happiness, real happiness? Nowhere but in God. By possessing the spirit of our holy religion, we are happy in the morning, we are happy at noon, we are happy in the evening; for the spirit of love and union is with us, and we rejoice in the spirit because it is of God, and we rejoice in God, for he is the giver of every good thing. Every Latter-day Saint, who has experienced the love of God in his heart, after having received the remission of his sins, through baptism, and the laying on of hands, realizes that he is filled with joy, and happiness, and consolation. He may be in pain, in error, in poverty, or in prison, if necessity demands, still, he is joyful. This is our experience, and each and every Latter-day Saint can bear witness to it.

“Truly happy is that man or woman, or that people, who enjoys the privileges of the Gospel of the Son of God, and who know how to appreciate his blessings.” (Discourses of Brigham Young, sel. John A. Widtsoe, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1941, pp. 235“Trust in the Lord”
Elder L. Tom Perry
Of the Council of the Twelve

The Happiest and Most Blessed People

“If we will live the gospel, if we will put our trust in God, our Eternal Father, if we will do what we are asked to do as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we will be the happiest and most blessed people on the face of the earth” (Pocatello, Idaho, biregional conference, 4 June 1995).

Excerpts from Recent Addresses of President Gordon B. Hinckley

[_Jason Bourne]

I would be lying if I said that I hadn't heard such at some point and time. But, from the Church's standpoint, I don't believe it is advocating a superficial presentation of happiness. From a believer’s standpoint, that “light” that you’re allowing to shine for others is believed to be tangible and real. I do agree that often people probably put on a false light (maybe an LED when they should be displaying an incandescent), which is unfortunate. It is one of the reasons I often become bored at church (there seems to be this “face to meet the faces” [again, my hat off to Mr. Elliot], that everyone puts on with their Sunday best. Sometimes I long for nitty-gritty, punch-you-in-the-face, someone-please-help-me, reality.

I didn’t mean to imply that it is advocating superficial happiness. But the message that is consistently presented over the pulpit is that LDS ought to be the happiest of all people, because they have the true gospel. Reality is that some LDS – whether by reason of genetics or circumstances – really don’t feel that happy. But they are still hearing the same message everyone else is hearing: LDS ought to be the happiest people on the earth, and LDS ought to let that happiness shine. Then missionary opportunities will arise as people wonder how to get that great happiness.

It seems to me that part of the LDS culture is to hide things like doubt and unhappiness, perhaps out of shame. It’s just not an acceptable part of the culture to doubt or be unhappy. This puts a lot of pressure on people.

I remember two events, in particular, that taught me this lesson as a Mormon. I had a very difficult mission. Many French people were not particularly happy with Americans in general, and in specific, they didn’t want Americans trying to change their religion. We spent endless hours knocking on doors only to have them slammed in our faces. It was grueling. I became depressed, not because it was hard work, but we were constantly told if we had enough faith and worked hard enough, we would find the right people. People who were anxiously awaiting “the truth”. Yet it just didn’t happen. My mission was one of the most difficult experiences of my life.

When I came back from my mission, for my homecoming talk (in the old days, I’m not sure they still do this), I refused to do the normal spiel about my mission being the “best two years of my life”. (or 18 months) Instead, I talked about the challenge of depression. I had no idea how it would be received, but I didn’t care at that point. Afterwards, several people came up to me and thanked me for openly talking about an issue they or a family member struggled with, and felt ashamed for.

Years later, as a Relief Society teacher, I did something similar in a realistic talk about how hard it was to be a mother of three young children (under 4) and how sometimes I wanted to run away, and how sometimes I wondered what was wrong with me. Once again, many sisters came up to me afterwards and expressed their gratitude.

We all know life can be hard, and being Mormon doesn’t somehow make it less hard. In fact, many things about Mormonism can add stress to quite a few people– paying ten percent of your income, having a larger family, trying to support a family on one income, and having a part-time, unpaid job at church. But through all this, LDS are consistently given the message they ought to be the happiest people on the earth.

Do any of you dispute this?

Of course I haven’t been active in church for over a decade, perhaps things have changed. And perhaps wards in more well-to-do areas may not have quite as many stressed members as my ward did.

I think if you attended now you would see some shift in this. There is more open discussion about the challenges of life, depression, trials and tribulations. Elder Morrison, a current 70 and I believe former psychologist has written a book about depression and it has sold well.

But the overtones of what you say are still there. People often do not want to appear discouraged or depressed. But still there is a more openess at least where I attend.