The Arrogance of Knowing "The Church is True"

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_Daniel Peterson
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Post by _Daniel Peterson »

liz3564 wrote:I guess what frustrates me, as a member of the LDS Church, Dr. Peterson, is that the attitude you describe is in overdrive on the MAD board. And, frankly, I think it shows the Church in a bad light.

I don't have a problem with people bearing their testimony, and declaring their faith. What I do have a problem with is putting down someone else because they believe something different.

And, there is a difference between calmly discussing differences in beliefs, and personally attacking the other person. Unfortunately, I see this all the time on MAD.

'm not saying that posters on the flip side are innocent, either. And there are some critics on this board who have been outright nasty to posters. You know this all too well because you have born the brunt of a lot of it.

Message boards and internet anonymity often bring out the worst in people; and they also lend themselves quite easily to misunderstandings and to false judgments about posters.

For what it's worth, I've met Pahoran on three different trips to New Zealand. He is a very pleasant, kind, and thoughtful fellow.

I've also met Ray Ago in Australia. I like him very much.
_KimberlyAnn
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Post by _KimberlyAnn »

Nephi wrote:
KimberlyAnn wrote:
Nephi wrote:
KimberlyAnn wrote:I have nothing to say but, "I wish I was in Bowling Green, sittin' in a chair..." I love that song! Maybe I'll reply more seriously later. :)

What song is this?


It's an old folk song about Bowling Green! Here's the text. I'm looking for the music.

I MUST hear the song, or at least see the sheemusic. I cannot believe I have missed this considering all the folk and bluegrass music of which I listen.


OK - You can listen to it on Rhapsody if you have the player. If you don't, it can be downloaded for free. Here's the link:

http://play.rhapsody.com/theweavers/atc ... wlinggreen

Enjoy!

KA
_Scottie
_Emeritus
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Post by _Scottie »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
liz3564 wrote:I guess what frustrates me, as a member of the LDS Church, Dr. Peterson, is that the attitude you describe is in overdrive on the MAD board. And, frankly, I think it shows the Church in a bad light.

I don't have a problem with people bearing their testimony, and declaring their faith. What I do have a problem with is putting down someone else because they believe something different.

And, there is a difference between calmly discussing differences in beliefs, and personally attacking the other person. Unfortunately, I see this all the time on MAD.

'm not saying that posters on the flip side are innocent, either. And there are some critics on this board who have been outright nasty to posters. You know this all too well because you have born the brunt of a lot of it.

Message boards and internet anonymity often bring out the worst in people; and they also lend themselves quite easily to misunderstandings and to false judgments about posters.

For what it's worth, I've met Pahoran on three different trips to New Zealand. He is a very pleasant, kind, and thoughtful fellow.

I've also met Ray Ago in Australia. I like him very much.

Pahoran has told me himself that he is the nicest guy in the world in real life, and that he is trying to get some kind of internet reputation as a jerk as Pahoran...weird.
_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

Scottie wrote:Pahoran has told me himself that he is the nicest guy in the world in real life, and that he is trying to get some kind of internet reputation as a jerk as Pahoran...weird.


I wouldn't doubt that at all. Online, he has said things to me and to others that I would not say to my worst enemy. But maybe offline he's all sweetness and light. Who knows?
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_Canucklehead
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Post by _Canucklehead »

Runtu wrote:
Scottie wrote:Pahoran has told me himself that he is the nicest guy in the world in real life, and that he is trying to get some kind of internet reputation as a jerk as Pahoran...weird.


I wouldn't doubt that at all. Online, he has said things to me and to others that I would not say to my worst enemy. But maybe offline he's all sweetness and light. Who knows?


I don't post on MAD, but I occasionally browse through the threads there. I have come to point where if I see that a post was made by Pahoran, I simply skip past it. In my experience, his posts are almost always filled with hateful invective and sneering pointed at anyone who doesn't agree with his worldview. His posts are ugly and degrading to the people he addressing.

Maybe in real life, he's a great guy, but obviously he has it in him to also be a complete and utter ***. Maybe he uses the online world to release the pressure of putting on a happy face for the real world to see. I don't know.
_ozemc
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Post by _ozemc »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
KimberlyAnn wrote:My certainty is greater now because I have evidence backing it.

Whatever.

I have evidence, too.



You have [/i]evidence that the Book of Mormon is true? We'd all love to hear it! Thanks!
"What does God need with a starship?" - Captain James T. Kirk

Most people would like to be delivered from temptation but would like it to keep in touch. - Robert Orben
_Scottie
_Emeritus
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Post by _Scottie »

ozemc wrote:
Daniel Peterson wrote:
KimberlyAnn wrote:My certainty is greater now because I have evidence backing it.

Whatever.

I have evidence, too.



You have [/I]evidence that the Book of Mormon is true? We'd all love to hear it! Thanks!

Oh come now. There IS evidence to indicate the Book of Mormon is true. You may not believe it to be the most persuasive evidence, but it is evidence nonetheless.

http://www.jefflindsay.com/BMEvidences.shtml
_Daniel Peterson
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Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Scottie wrote:There IS evidence to indicate the Book of Mormon is true. You may not believe it to be the most persuasive evidence, but it is evidence nonetheless.

Thank you, Scottie.

I said evidence, not proof.

Two equally informed people can disagree about the power of the evidence -- and, of course, people who are not equally informed can differ, too -- but it is simply false to say that there is no evidence at all.

As for exhibiting the evidence, I'm doing the best that I can. I've published scores and scores of pages on the subject, given scores and scores of lectures (some recorded). And I have a Big Project underway. I can't and don't guarantee that everybody will find it persuasive, but many have, and I do.
_Who Knows
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Post by _Who Knows »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
Scottie wrote:There IS evidence to indicate the Book of Mormon is true. You may not believe it to be the most persuasive evidence, but it is evidence nonetheless.

Thank you, Scottie.

I said evidence, not proof.

Two equally informed people can disagree about the power of the evidence -- and, of course, people who are not equally informed can differ, too -- but it is simply false to say that there is no evidence at all.

As for exhibiting the evidence, I'm doing the best that I can. I've published scores and scores of pages on the subject, given scores and scores of lectures (some recorded). And I have a Big Project underway. I can't and don't guarantee that everybody will find it persuasive, but many have, and I do.


I don't know. Are presents under the tree christmas morning, evidence of santa claus? :)
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
_neworder
_Emeritus
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Post by _neworder »

KimberlyAnn wrote:
Recorded by Cousin Emmy, also Kossoy Sisters
RG

KA


I love listening to the Kossoy Sisters. Their songs are kind of morbid old folk songs and a lot of fun listening to. I like singing "What Will We Do With The Baby O" while tossing my 5 Month year old in the air and catching him.
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