Giving and Taking Offense

[_Bond...James Bond]

Thank god for the internet - how else could wade indulge in his addiction of self-aggrandizement embedded within psycho-babble preaching?

I mean, really, in real life, people would probably just leave the room.

The Internet and real life become blurred when Wade posts. Every post of Wade's is aimed at a room of empty chairs.

[_beastie]

The Internet and real life become blurred when Wade posts. Every post of Wade's is aimed at a room of empty chairs.

Good point!

[_wenglund]

Well, at least you finally admit that a person bears at least some responsibility in connection with their comments and actions. That is progress.

Now, if you could just understand that responsibility is not restricted to things directly under one's control, but also includes causal influences and impact. There are action that produce a reasonably expected response from those on the receiving end. For example, if you tell a funny joke, people will tend to laugh. Whereas, had you not told the joke, they may not have laughed. By telling the joke, you influenced them to laugh, or in other words you are somewhat responsible for them laughing, even though ultimately it is their choice to laugh. That's what comedians do--I.e. "make" people laugh.

The same is true for offensive comments and behavior. If you fart in someone's face, it is reasonably expected that they would recoil from the nausiating stench. And, it is unlikely that they would recoil had you not farted in their face. As such, it is reasonable to hold you somewhat responsible for causing them to recoil even given that it was ultimately their choice to recoil. This principle applies to offensive words as well. (If you want a perfect example of a verbal fart, just read about anything Mercury or PP writes/lets on this board)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

This is the problem in holding other people responsible for your feelings, Wade. It's totally subjective. You remind me of the preacher I heard say on TV, "I hate it when a fly lands on me. It makes me feel bad about myself." He chose to give power over his self-esteem to a fly. I suppose his next move was to create an anti-bigotry iniative directed at the flies who had ever chosen to land on him, or maybe offer to teach a little CBT to the flies, I don't know, but do you see what a waste of effort that is?

As long as you are looking for offense, you will find it everywhere. Criticism of your faith will continue whether you learn to live with it or not, Wade.

Taking offense promotes as much grimness in the word as giving offense.

Contrary to what you have just iterated, nothing I have said may in any reasonably way be construed as me suggesting that others are responsible for my self-esteem. Encouraging people to behave responsibly towards others (which is what I am advocating) is worlds apart from that.

Nor, for that matter, am I looking to take offense (though I am open to considering that I may be too sensative about my faith).

Rather, I am trying to solicite ways to help us all (me in particular) to avoid the so-called "grimness" of offensiveness from both sides (be it due to insensitivity and/or hyper-sensitivity), and thus far there have been some excellent responses--your misreading of my posts not included.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_beastie]

I once had a college professor who actually would fall asleep during his own lectures. I've often wondered if Wade does the same thing.

[_Scottie]

I'm sorry, but I agree with Wade here.

You guys are all trying to simplify feelings to an on/off switch. It is not even close to that easy.

Remember the whole thread about whether guys were responsible for feeling sexual attraction to a scantily clad woman? It was plain that many of you thought that men could not be held accountable for the feelings that arose from looking at the female form. This was just a natural human response to a stimuli.

The same goes for words. To say that I should just be able to brush aside any negative thing that gets said to me is asinine. It's just not that simple. Part of human nature is to react to stimuli. This reaction may take the form of offense, or anger, or laughter, or whatever emotion.

[_wenglund]

Thank god for the internet - how else could wade indulge in his addiction of self-aggrandizement embedded within psycho-babble preaching?

I mean, really, in real life, people would probably just leave the room.

That's funny. I would think that the internet lent itself all the more to coming and going and interacting as one pleases--you know, like the mass exodus that took place when you were a major participant and running ZLMB. ;-)

If people wish to "leave the room" or simply tune me out, they are still free to do so. There is certainly nothing preventing them from leaving the mutually respectful and meaningful discourse with me to those who are willing and able. I am pleased to have been enriched lately by the impressive musing from good folks like Blixa, Book of Mormon, and Scottie, to name a few. They can correct me if I am wrong, but they don't seem anxious to get away from me.

So, please, as mentioned to Tal, please don't project your personal hang-ups on the rest of the board participants. That would be...well...repelling. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_barrelomonkeys]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzaYrB9aEj8


:)

I actually find it bothersome that I find myself wanting to debate the merits of mutual respect and understanding. In all honesty it is disappointing to me and reminds me that I really am a wacko because I am so sensitive.

I always have those moments when I think to myself that others must be as incensed at the cruelty that is inflicted on others as I am. Then I am reminded that this is just not the case and my sensitivity is an anomaly.

But if we didn't have cruel, insensitive assholes I wouldn't fume and fret about those in need of rescue and then what would I do?

[_Scottie]

Thank god for the internet - how else could wade indulge in his addiction of self-aggrandizement embedded within psycho-babble preaching?

I mean, really, in real life, people would probably just leave the room.

That's funny. I would think that the internet lent itself all the more to coming and going and interacting as one pleases--you know, like the mass exodus that took place when you were a major participant and running ZLMB. ;-)

If people wish to "leave the room" or simply tune me out, they are still free to do so. There is certainly nothing preventing them from leaving the mutually respectful and meaningful discourse with me to those who are willing and able. I am pleased to have been enriched lately by the impressive musing from good folks like Blixa, Book of Mormon, and Scottie, to name a few. They can correct me if I am wrong, but they don't seem anxious to get away from me.

So, please, as mentioned to Tal, please don't project your personal hang-ups on the rest of the board participants. That would be...well...repelling. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Indeed. I very much value Wade and his contributions to this board (and MAD). If you don't like him, don't read him. It speaks volumes the depths some of you will go for a cheap insult.

[_Scottie]

But if we didn't have cruel, insensitive assholes I wouldn't fume and fret about those in need of rescue and then what would I do?

Boy, you've come to the right place then!! :)

[_barrelomonkeys]

I'm in the Wade camp too. I read something he will post and it resonates with me and then watch people become upset and insult him after reading the exact same words I've just read! It sometimes astounds me.

I think much of the perceived insults just come from the us v. them mentality.

I'm anxiously awaiting the day when everyone recognizes that I'm a "them" and am not part of any collective on either side. :O