As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.

[_zeezrom]

When you put old men on the throne, you get old ideas. Forgetfulness. Confusion.

Hi Harmony,

Have you ever considered joining a church where women and men (old and young) hold positions of authority? It seems you would be pretty happy there. Maybe since you have been so accommodating for DH, he could do the same for you?

Just curious.

Zee.

[_zeezrom]

I lost track of why it is so scary to believe God was once a man. Can someone remind me why people hold an aversion to this idea?

Is it because it means there was a God before God? What's so bad about that?

[_stemelbow]

I have no idea what unintentional lying would be. Lying is knowing what you are saying is not true. The very definition is that it is intentional.

Pep pep...good point. I didn't explain my thinking on that. I'd say it goes like this, he was caught off guard, didn't really know how to explain it or how to put it, wished to make it easy on himself and make the religion appear nice. So he did his best to meet those type of purposes. He fibbed. He didn't come out and say the teaching or idea was wrong so it wasn't necessarily some straight up lie. It was merely him making it appear the teaching in question wasn't that big a deal for LDS.

Then you do not understand LDS teachings about repentance when it come to restitution. I suggest you read up on it. You can start here http://LDS.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=51969daac5d98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

Oh come on...What in this link suggests I'm wrong. Lets not fight about whether you know more than me. Let's discuss it.

You admitted he lied. We both agree on that. Lying is intentional. Remember It's not a lie if YOU believe it. Grosskreutz

Indeed. I admitted it, from my perspective. And I don't make a fuss about one man's lie. That's probably true too. Normally I simply like to be positive and forgiving of people.

[_stemelbow]

It wasn't an "oopssie". It was an intentional attempt to misdirect. He knew that this belief would be denounced by most Christians and tried to hide it. If he was a true believer, shouldn't he have been proud of the Church's doctrines?

PR over piety. I don't think he was a TBM.

I think even lies and misdirections can be considered oopssies. He was perhaps caught a little off-guard and tried to make things appear different then they are for some reason, any reason. Oppsie. he could very well have taken a different tack. I don't see the purpose of worrying about it now, though.

[_Runtu]

Because they don't have anything to do with the topic of the thread. But, I get his point more clearly now. He wishes to discuss whether Hinckley lied frequently or not. Even if he lied three or four times, it hardly means he lies a lot. And I don't wish to discuss every instance in which DJ thinks he lied. Not really something I"m interested in.

Well, I have to agree with DJ that he was just responding to your statement that Gordon Hinckley wasn't the kind of man who would lie. Everyone lies, even prophets, sometimes.

As for the OP, I was a little taken aback when he made that statement originally. But I thought his reference to it in the following conference was just plain odd. He didn't say, "I misspoke" or "I was misquoted or misunderstood." He said, as I recall, "Don't worry about me. I know the doctrines of the church." Struck me as weird at the time.

[_AtticusFinch]

Hinkley lied. Bottom line. Just as he lied to investigators during Hoffman debacle.

Mormons taught God was once a sinful man and have spent the last many years trying to distance themselves from that awful doctrine.

[_stemelbow]

Everyone lies, even prophets, sometimes.

That was my point long ago in this thread. that's why I don't see the big deal in trying to make this all about a lie.

Struck me as weird at the time.

Indeed. And it very well could have been another mistake by ol' Hinckley. I've already agreed to that posibility in this thread too, just so you know.

[_stemelbow]

Hinkley lied. Bottom line. Just as he lied to investigators during Hoffman debacle.

Mormons taught God was once a sinful man and have spent the last many years trying to distance themselves from that awful doctrine.

I don't know about trying to distance themselves part. and I woudln't just say its awful because some other Chrisitians assume sa much. but that is just me.

[_Quasimodo]

I don't see the purpose of worrying about it now, though.

There are some very good reasons to be concerned about it.

If the President and Prophet of the Church is more concerned about perceptions than he is about the tenets of his Church, why should the average member believe those tenets? This was the number one Mormon and he was denying his own beliefs. What does that say about the religion in general?

A very good reason not to be a member. I think it has had that effect to some degree.

[_stemelbow]

There are some very good reasons to be concerned about it.

If the President and Prophet of the Church is more concerned about perceptions than he is about the tenets of his Church, why should the average member believe those tenets?

I don't think this instance proves he was more concerned about perceptions than he was about the tenets of his Church. Indeed he did not deny the whole concept altogether. He just realizes its a confusing, even among many members, questionable idea. He tried...and all these years laters its still something to fuss about. Ooppss...that attempt at PR failed him, it seems.

This was the number one Mormon and he was denying his own beliefs. What does that say about the religion in general?

Nothing really, at least in my view. He wasn't denying the belief...he denied that it was a teaching per se. He was trying to minimize it as some standard LDS fare.

A very good reason not to be a member. I think it has had that effect to some degree.

And some people will not agree with your conclusion here--that its a good reason not to be a member. So we'll still have members. Complaining about it now, isn't going to work, I think.