The Book of Mormon: Man-Made or God-Given?

[_zerinus]

The interpretation thereof by the gift of God

A stone.
It wasn't even gift wrapped.
Joe happened upon it digging a well and used it to commit fraud upon others.

Reminds me of a Bible verse. Matthew 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

Oh it's a magic stone, is that it? A regular stone is not a gift but a magic stone, whoo-ah.
Sticks and stones may break my bones but high class literature comes from magic stones.

Mocking sacred things will not be taken lightly by the Lord.

[_Lemmie]

How do you determine that it is "high class literature?" It seems shallow and without any character development to me. The characters are one dimensional and simplistic in their world view - too much black and white. Is there anyone (other than believing clones) that share the "high class literature" claim? My guess is that your incredibly subjective claim here is based on presupposing it as coming from god and then getting some unrelated emotional feeling that was probably manipulated by others to show that it was a confirmation of the presupposed belief. Let us know when you get off of the circular logic train.

It is the way in which it is written that makes it high class literature.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/Book of Mormon/topics/aictp.html

Going along with ihaq's source, Twain also said this about this "high literature" book:

The book seems to be merely a prosy detail of imaginary history, with the Old Testament for a model; followed by a tedious plagiarism of the New Testament. The author labored to give his words and phrases the quaint, old-fashioned sound and structure of our King James's translation of the Scriptures; and the result is a mongrel--half modern glibness, and half ancient simplicity and gravity. The latter is awkward and constrained; the former natural, but grotesque by the contrast...

The Mormon Bible is rather stupid and tiresome to read, but there is nothing vicious in its teachings. Its code of morals is unobjectionable --it is "smouched" [Milton] from the New Testament and no credit given.

http://www.truthandgrace.com/twainbom.htm

[_zerinus]

That is the copyright page.

Speaking of copyright. Why did he try to sell it?

I am not aware that he did.

[_I have a question]

That is the copyright page.

Speaking of copyright. Why did he try to sell it?

I am not aware that he did.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon ... _copyright

You are now.

It was also one of the earliest examples of blaming the members.

Another interesting development from work on the Revelations and Translations Series has been the identification of a previously unpublished revelation on securing a copyright for the Book of Mormon in Canada. David Whitmer, after he left the Church, recalled that the revelation promised success in selling the copyright, but upon return of the men charged with the duty, Joseph Smith and others were disappointed by what seemed like failure. Historians have relied upon statements of David Whitmer, Hiram Page, and William McLellin for decades but have not had the actual text of the revelation. Revelation Book 1 will provide that.
Although we still do not know the whole story, particularly Joseph Smith’s own view of the situation, we do know that calling the divine communication a “failed revelation” is not warranted. The Lord’s directive clearly conditions the successful sale of the copyright on the worthiness of those seeking to make the sale as well as on the spiritual receptivity of the potential purchasers. [1]

[_Themis]

Which method did Joseph use? One, two, three, four, or five?

Regards,
MG

1, 2, a little bit of 3, and maybe a little bit of 5. Joseph was a magician. Not the card trick or rabbit out of a hat type. Joseph like many others tried to convince people he had special powers to see things on a rock inside his hat. It's basically the same thing as the crystal ball. He was successful enough to convince a man to pay him to search for treasure. A treasure he never found(from what I understand it was because of a guardian spirit protecting the treasure ), and while the man continued to believe he could see things, his family did not and had Joseph arrested. The article you posted was horrible and simple minded. It lacked facts and reasonable logic. In many ways it is the old you cannot show exactly how it was done so it must be magic. Magicians today do it for entertainment, but in the past they did it to gain power, resources, women, and followers. All of which Joseph did.

[_Themis]

I've listened, can't see it.

Here's why. If you come into the discussion with a presupposition that a creator/God doesn't exist...you're not going to see God's hand in anything. Makes sense, right?

You are discussing it with people who used to be believers. Understand?

I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that would demonstrate that Joseph and/or others whipped up this book.

If it's man-made we should not expect to see a lot of evidence since they would go out of their way to hide any evidence. The evidence for man-made is the Book itself and it's claims. Joseph was more then capable to create a poorly written story.

It is read/studied by millions of people who have a greater faith/belief in God/Christ because of their testimonies of that book.

Is that not a good thing?

No. Believing in God doesn't necessarily make people happier, and in many cases creates beliefs that are harmful to them and the world.

[_Chap]

That is the copyright page.

Speaking of copyright. Why did he try to sell it?

I am not aware that he did.

What are we doing wasting our time having a discussion about Smith and the Book of Mormon with somebody so completely damn pig-ignorant that he doesn't even know that?

There used to be TBMs around who actually knew stuff and had brains too. As I have said before, there are no more sharks, only jellyfish. And ones that can't even sting.

[_spotlight]

And ones that can't even sting.

I don't know chap, Z's rebuke has me cowering in a corner.

Mocking sacred things will not be taken lightly by the Lord.

He is talking about Jo's treasure hunting rock here. I bet he is unaware that Jo sacrificed a dog to appease the treasure guardian spirits on one occasion. But let us not mock these sacred ways of the Lard or perhaps there will be no pieces of eight for us when we arrive on the other side. Arg!

[_Sanctorian]

Speaking of copyright. Why did he try to sell it?

I am not aware that he did.

Uh oh! I see a shelf item!!!

[_Chap]

Speaking of copyright. Why did he try to sell it?

I am not aware that he did.

Uh oh! I see a shelf item!!!

The necessary flatpack (STURDI) is even now being dispatched to zerinus from Deseret Industries, thanks to a dedicated team of senior missionaries.