Husbands/fathers as spiritual leaders in the home

[MG 2.0]

My question to MG was about the Restoration. If the early Christian understanding of God became corrupted, what specifically was lost that Joseph Smith subsequently restored?

Adding more clarity to what I've already presented.

When it comes right down to it Latter-day Saints would posit that the priesthood authority of God disappeared from the earth. That resulted in the loss of revelatory guidance. This led to a drift in maintaining the core doctrines which I listed as the scriptures that can be referenced in the New Testament. To repeat what I said earlier, the introduction of Greek/Hellenistic philosophy replaced the literal meaning of the New Testament scriptures.

Concepts like the Trinity developed over centuries through councils (such as Nicea) using Greek/Hellenistic philosophical frameworks.

Priesthood and revelation had disappeared.

This is where the corruption of the true doctrine of the Godhead came into play. It wasn't necessarily a malicious cover up, but a philosophical drift away from a literal, plain reading of early Christian texts.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

My rumination at the moment is that the corrupt creed in LDS view is predestination.

That would be another. One could make a laundry list. I've been keeping it simple.

Regards,
MG

[Limnor]

limnor, I am inclined to shrug my shoulders over annoying habits MG has or uses. Not everybody(annybody?)agrees with this, perhaps not myself always. I come here to ruminate and trade thoughts and views, not to win. It is unlikely to pin MG down to enough specifics to win.

You’re probably right, though maybe I should reconsider whether I was trying to “win.” I guess I thought of it more like having a discussion worth having. I’m not sure how asking someone to explain what they mean by Restoration gains points. What’s the point in discussing something if you aren’t willing to commit?

As for predestination, I lean toward Arminius.

[I Have Questions]

limnor, I am inclined to shrug my shoulders over annoying habits MG has or uses. Not everybody(annybody?)agrees with this, perhaps not myself always. I come here to ruminate and trade thoughts and views, not to win. It is unlikely to pin MG down to enough specifics to win.

You’re probably right, though maybe I should reconsider whether I was trying to “win.” I guess I thought of it more like having a discussion worth having. I’m not sure how asking someone to explain what they mean by Restoration gains points. What’s the point in discussing something if you aren’t willing to commit?

As for predestination, I lean toward Arminius.

huckelberry, what do you mean by the term ‘predestination’ and have you got some examples of Jesus teaching it?

[MG 2.0]

limnor, I am inclined to shrug my shoulders over annoying habits MG has or uses. Not everybody(annybody?)agrees with this, perhaps not myself always. I come here to ruminate and trade thoughts and views, not to win. It is unlikely to pin MG down to enough specifics to win.

You’re probably right, though maybe I should reconsider whether I was trying to “win.” I guess I thought of it more like having a discussion worth having. I’m not sure how asking someone to explain what they mean by Restoration gains points. What’s the point in discussing something if you aren’t willing to commit?

As for predestination, I lean toward Arminius.

Gonna miss our back and forth.

Gotta hand one thing to Arminius. He saw through the horrific outcomes of Calvinism. One good thing to say about Calvin though. He came up with his predestination stuff directly from the Bible.

Interestingly, while Arminius did his thing in the 1600s, his debate(s) relied on the exact same philosophical architecture built during the Hellenistic era.

Absent priesthood or revelation. Or would you disagree with that?

Regards,
MG

[huckelberry]

You’re probably right, though maybe I should reconsider whether I was trying to “win.” I guess I thought of it more like having a discussion worth having. I’m not sure how asking someone to explain what they mean by Restoration gains points. What’s the point in discussing something if you aren’t willing to commit?

As for predestination, I lean toward Arminius.

huckelberry, what do you mean by the term ‘predestination’ and have you got some examples of Jesus teaching it?

Questions, I am not aware of Jesus teaching predestination. The doctrine in its pure form is God chose who will go to hell before starting creation, withholding irresistible grace from those chosen for the role.

[I Have Questions]

huckelberry, what do you mean by the term ‘predestination’ and have you got some examples of Jesus teaching it?

Questions, I am not aware of Jesus teaching predestination. The doctrine in its pure form is God chose who will go to hell before starting cr

If Jesus didn’t teach it, then it isn’t something lost that was restored.

The LDS Church claims that the great apostasy that necessitated a restoration was because the gospel of Jesus Christ I.e. what Jesus taught, was corrupted. And that priesthood authority was lost. However, like Limnor, I’m struggling to see what Jesus taught that subsequently hasn’t been taught until Joseph Smith came along and restored it.

Similarly, Jesus didn’t convey any priesthood, he charged his apostles with their calling, and other people labelled Jesus as a High Priest, but Jesus himself didn’t. There is a clear line of succession from the Apostles down through Christianity. So that charge hasn’t been lost either.

The “Great Apostasy” seems to be a convenient straw man set up to justify Joseph getting into the religion business.

[huckelberry]

Questions, I am not aware of Jesus teaching predestination. The doctrine in its pure form is God chose who will go to hell before starting cr

If Jesus didn’t teach it, then it isn’t something lost that was restored.

I was suggesting that that is the LDS position.

[Limnor]

Questions, I am not aware of Jesus teaching predestination. The doctrine in its pure form is God chose who will go to hell before starting cr

If Jesus didn’t teach it, then it isn’t something lost that was restored.

I just looked it up. The Church Fathers were debating “predestination” well before the Nicene Creed, and continued debating them afterward. So yeah, what original predestination doctrine had been lost that Joseph needed to restore?

[I Have Questions]

If Jesus didn’t teach it, then it isn’t something lost that was restored.

I just looked it up. The Church Fathers were debating “predestination” well before the Nicene Creed, and continued debating them afterward. So yeah, what original predestination doctrine had been lost that Joseph needed to restore?

To justify claiming a “Great Apostasy” and the need for a “Restoration” people have to put words in Jesus’s mouth that he didn’t say. They have to make stuff up.