Not good news if you want more full tithe-payers. I would expect an organization with 16 million members (some are millionaires) to be making a lot more money.
Last edited by doubtingthomas on Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus.
The flood, a global flood, full of symbolism as underscored by Mormon scriptures and hundreds of talks, articles, and teachings found in teaching manuals, makes it clear that a universal flood is LDS doctrine. Period.
So the "global flood" currently doesn't qualify as "doctrine". MG was right.
You don't have to believe in a global flood to be a member in good standing.
Last edited by doubtingthomas on Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus.
The flood, a global flood, full of symbolism as underscored by Mormon scriptures and hundreds of talks, articles, and teachings found in teaching manuals, makes it clear that a universal flood is LDS doctrine. Period.
So the "global flood" currently doesn't qualify as "doctrine". MG was right.
You don't have to believe in a global flood to be a member in good standing, which is a good thing.
-_-
From your last link (your second link is broken, at least I can’t see it I can see it now, it does nothing to establish your point):
Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.
How many times have the above declared The Flood was a global flood versus a localized flood?
eta: It’s so weird to see the Mormonism I knew evolve into some sort of heretical mishmash of NuChristianity and Mopologetics. This is what was taught up until the Internet made it impossible to be this ignorant:
Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.
How many times have the above declared The Flood was a global flood versus a localized flood?
I don't know. Official declarations and proclamations are usually letters signed by the First Presidency. I am not aware of any letter by the First Presidency declaring the Flood was global.
As for the scriptures, Mormons can get creative just like other Christians get creative with the Bible.
How many times have the above declared The Flood was a global flood versus a localized flood?
I don't know. Official declarations and proclamations are usually letters signed by the First Presidency. I am not aware of any letter by the First Presidency declaring the Flood was global.
As for the scriptures, Mormons can get creative just like other Christians get creative with the Bible.
Given that the Essays are not signed by the First Presidency, but the Aug. 17, 1949 Statement of the First Presidency was, does that mean it is unofficial that the Church does not know where the ban on blacks having the priesthood, but yet official that it waas a "direct commandment from the Lord"?
"Only the atheist realizes how morally objectionable it is for survivors of catastrophe to believe themselves spared by a loving god, while this same God drowned infants in their cribs." Sam Harris
Since the flood is symbolic of baptism, and Mormons strictly reject sprinkling or any baptism not by full emersion, Mormons are locked into a global flood. Even the tip of Everest peeking above the waters would require a redo. Since the Garden of Eden is in Jackson County, we assume a population spread across both old and new world. The flood must have Killed everyone, even any living in mountains. If anyone but Noah and family survived, then the doctrines of lineage and priesthood taught by Joseph Smith are false, as Shem Ham and Japath aren't the only players.
If Mopologists want to admit a Catholic priest touching a baby with a drop of water is closer to revealed scripture than the doctrine of immersion, then they can deny the flood in good faith. And don't tell me the physical events behind the symbol aren't important. Joseph Smith even said as doctrine that 8 people on the ark symbolized 8 years of age.
Since DCP says science is always learning new things then believers can more easily just say a global flood is one of those new things science will verify one day.
Social distancing has likely already begun to flatten the curve...Continue to research good antivirals and vaccine candidates. Make everyone wear masks. -- J.D. Vance
Gadianton , I do not see any law anywhere that requires a symbol to be a real event instead of a fictional presentation or folklore. People have been using 1984 as an important symbol long after the year 1984 came and went. The meaning and efficacy of baptism lies in baptism not in an ancient flood even if someone uses a flood to point to or illustrate an idea about the meaning of baptism.
I remember that that some other LDS beliefs link to a real flood. Understanding the garden of Eden as in America suggests a real world wide flood.( though a big MIssissippi flood could carry a boat out to sea I suppose)
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addition,
I think the big problem is the same other churches have with teaching about the flood. A lot of people in the pews grew up believing the flood was real and do not wish to be contradicted. There are all sorts of people who know there was not a flood but really do not see a point in fighting about it so a quiet live and let live policy continues.
Darth J used to say that the Church actually has no doctrine. I think he might have been right. Of late, they've adopted a post-modernist approach where words can mean anything and absolute truth is absolutely relative to whatever goals they have in the moment.
