Secular folks should worry.

[sock puppet]

MG 2.0--

You are aware that the Hammurabi Code (secular) predated the 10 Commandments, and but for the first 4 commandments (syncophancy to "god") and respecting one's mother and father, there were corollaries in the Code that predated the 10 Commandments. So, no, religion is not necessary for people to be "good" or "virtuous."

[Schreech]

When I refer to Judaeo Christian principles I am simply referring to principles such as honesty, integrity, empathy, concern for one’s neighbor, acceptance and allowance for individual beliefs, service without expectation of return, etc.

Reading this made me throw up a little in my mouth. These are not Judaeo-Christian values. Where these exist, it's because they're universal human values that cut across the boundaries of culture and religion. That you try to assign exclusive ownership to your own club is beyond the pale.

Once you realize that double cultist, MG, has never really lived outside of the small little bubble he has chosen for himself - surrounded by people that look and believe like him, without ever challenging his own beliefs, you realize how shallow his thought processes are. He genuinely has not experienced anything outside his conservative Mormon lifetime of conditioning. I’m guessing he hasn’t lived many places or even traveled all that much considering he obviously has no experience with other cultures or religions. It’s kind of sad but definitely helps explain his inability to comprehend anything outside the myopic views he has subjected himself to his whole life.

In the last few years, I have spent a fair amount of time in northern Asia and several majority Muslim countries and, somehow, they also hold to principles “such as honesty, integrity, empathy, concern for one’s neighbor, acceptance and allowance for individual beliefs, service without expectation of return, etc”. Even crazier, I have traveled across many of the most atheist countries in the world and, shockingly, they also seem to adhere to these same principles - I would say many of these places hold these values in much higher esteem than any of MGs “Judaeo Christian” societies. At this point, it’s kind of off putting that a grown adult thinks Christianity in general (and one of the shallowest of Christian religions, Mormonism, specifically) is somehow the key to these “principles”. Lol.

[MG 2.0]

I’m guessing… [MG has an]inability to comprehend anything outside the myopic views he has subjected himself to his whole life.

Yes, you would be guessing. You use the word “myopic”. This applies to a person who falls prey to stereotyping. It might also apply to a pseudo therapist who really doesn’t listen to fully understand and comes up with a bunch of BS to make a buck or pass themselves off.

They don’t really look at or know the person they are trying to scam.

You are not the first, neither will you be the last.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

MG 2.0--

You are aware that the Hammurabi Code (secular) predated the 10 Commandments, and but for the first 4 commandments (syncophancy to "god") and respecting one's mother and father, there were corollaries in the Code that predated the 10 Commandments. So, no, religion is not necessary for people to be "good" or "virtuous."

Yep, that is true.

And then Moses came along…

Regards,
MG

[Schreech]

Lol. As usual I wasn’t talking to you, you insecure kook.

Yes, you would be guessing.

And yet, everything you posts validates my “guess”. It’s ok, just stay in that bubble, no need to subject yourself to the reality of how the world actually works or challenge your conditioned beliefs. Lol.

You use the word “myopic”. This applies to a person who falls prey to stereotyping.

Oooof. The irony. I’m not sure who is less self aware, you or our other double cultist and Hitler-fan, Ajax. Every accusation a confession for you cultists. Either way, watching you two get your asses handed to you gives me minutes of entertainment when I have time to check this site.

It might also apply to a pseudo therapist who really doesn’t listen to fully understand and comes up with a bunch of BS to make a buck or pass themselves off.

They don’t really look at or know the person they are trying to scam.

You are not the first, neither will you be the last.

I’m guessing you thought this made sense when you wrote it.

[MG 2.0]

It might also apply to a pseudo therapist who really doesn’t listen to fully understand and comes up with a bunch of BS to make a buck or pass themselves off.

They don’t really look at or know the person they are trying to scam.

You are not the first, neither will you be the last.

I’m guessing you thought this made sense when you wrote it.

Did and does.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

As usual I wasn’t talking to you…

You’re talking about me. That allows me to respond to your falsehoods.

Regards,
MG

[Res Ipsa]

But again, as an example, if honesty and truth telling fall under the umbrella of moral/ethical relativism and/or situational ethics we find ourselves…or or children and grandchildren will, living in a society where trust is a thing of the past. And that’s not good. Secular humanists and religionists I would hope can agree on this point. There are many other things besides honesty and truth telling that are bedrock to any successful society that flourishes and where people, generally speaking, are happy and fulfilled.

I'm curious, given Mormonism's core reliance on moral relativism and situational ethics, why you have such an aversion to it? That's got to be an interesting dissidence to have to deal with, as a faithful believer of Mormonism.

That discussion will never happen. He knows he's a moral relativist. He just uses it as another one of his thoughtless cudgels.

[Marcus]

When I refer to Judaeo Christian principles I am simply referring to principles such as honesty, integrity, empathy, concern for one’s neighbor, acceptance and allowance for individual beliefs, service without expectation of return, etc.

Prof. Michael Sandel's Harvard lectures on the western history of moral and political philosophy are free to access (I think they are about 10 hours in total). You might find them enjoyable and beneficial. My wife was assigned them as part of a course (I think it was a justice/law course) last year, and I overheard part of a lecture and ended up getting sucked in to watching all of them, and was extremely glad I did.

Somewhere in the lecture series (a lecture with a lot of David Hume in it, If I recall correctly), there's a dude just chilling in a full-on Spiderman costume in the lecture hall, just so you have something extra to look forward to.

ETA:
Might be fun to juxtapose the lecture series with a "Very Short Introduction" read on the Bible (John Riche's). In particular, the sections of the book devoted to the horrors that were justified within just America's short history utilizing the Bible (or, explicitly "Judeo-Christian principles," I guess one could say).

Basically, there are much richer, and thoughtful reasons for honesty, integrity, empathy, etc., than "God said to do it" -- and those reasons may be less prone to being thrown to the wayside by proof-texting.

thank you for the information about Sandel's lectures. Your final sentence is exactly the Tl;dr needed to counter the insupportable opinion that 'god said it' somehow makes things right. and i agree, having thoughtful reasons for ethical positions really does outweigh that.

a perfect example: i don't think i was ever more shocked by Midgley than when he said that people without his religion don't know why rape is wrong. So, he only knows it's wrong because his 'god' said so????? That's an extreme example (i hope), but it makes the point. A religion's 'god' dictating rules doesn't replace thoughtful consideration of the why behind the rules.

[honorentheos]

I'm curious, given Mormonism's core reliance on moral relativism and situational ethics, why you have such an aversion to it? That's got to be an interesting dissidence to have to deal with, as a faithful believer of Mormonism.

That discussion will never happen. He knows he's a moral relativist. He just uses it as another one of his thoughtless cudgels.

It appears MG doesn't realize he is, in fact, a moral relativist because he imagines his morality IS fixed...to whatever "god" supposedly says.

It's akin to a person following a compass around a large, moving magnet.