MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:35 pm
MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 6:07 pm
You got off on the wrong foot to begin with in misphrasing and/or misrepresenting what I said.
I said:
God would have instituted failsafes in the possibility that individuals are going to blow it…
You said:
God would have failsafes to prevent someone blowing it…
Look carefully. See the difference?
Everything else you said is set up on a faulty foundation.
This was back on page 52.
Apparently you didn’t see the difference.
One is conditional and one is not. There is flexibility.
Be that as it may, you then said:
In making that last statement you have to own the position that your God allows children to be raped. What’s the failsafe for the victims? On the basis that this life is supposed to be for our learning, a child who is raped has their life entirely messed up. Their opportunity for learning is skewed in favour of their abusers learning, according to you. Your God is rewarding the unrighteous by allowing them the chance to learn from their abuse of others. If you counter that the victim will have it all made good in the next life, then your claim that this life is necessary for the learning process, for God’s plan for individuals, is undermined.
I’ve stated my thoughts in regards to this throughout the thread. God ‘allows’ for children to be raped in the same sense that He allows for a husband to shoot and kill his family. Or for a woman to kill her own children. Allowing doesn’t mean condoning. People that do horrendous acts of violence to a child, to a spouse, to a coworker, or what have you, will be held accountable for those actions. In the meantime children are harmed and often carry the scars of other’s terrible acts/mistakes.
But if we live in a world in which agency reigns supreme how can it be otherwise? That’s what I’ve said over and over and over again. Apparently to no avail. NO ONE has come with an alternative other than something that would resemble what is referred to as ‘Satan’s plan’. A world where everyone does the right thing all the time because they don’t have any choice. Comparable, I suppose, to an Islamic country that cuts off body parts if folks do bad things. That would definitely act as a deterrent if enacted world wide and enforced.
Would we want to live in a world like that where government and police action would take such extreme measures and be granted powers to exercise extreme punishments? Can you imagine where that might end up? Governments that can dictate every move and freedom or lack of freedom?
Look around and you can see examples of this in one form or another. Is that what you want?
As it is, we are free to choose. That brings its own risks. Mainly being, people are going to do bad things.
Repeatedly I’ve come back to the Atonement of Jesus Christ. I see this as the only real hope for a world in which sin exists and freedom and liberty reigns triumphant. Laws can be enacted and enforced against child rape and other hideous crimes agains humanity, but wicked people BY NATURE are still going to commit acts of violence against children and others.
It’s the ‘fallen’ world we live in. A telestial world. But we have hope for a better world in which all will be restored to its perfect and proper frame…and all that this would entail.
I realize that you and others seem to be under the illusion that an all powerful God ought to step in and cure every ill, stop every act of violence, etc.
But that’s just not the world we live in. So get over it. Actions have real consequences. Human beings have agency.
If you have a better alternative than the world we live in feel free to outline in detail how that might look/work while at the same time allowing for free agency.
Regards,
MG
