Religion is Obsolete

[_Mephitus]

Sono
I was going to say wait until you are in college...college is a big bore to me...and I have to dumb down things
Then I remembered you went to BYU
To me college is not what I thought it was going to be...not at all.....some of the stupid asnine classes I have had to take.. Heck I could have taught the class.
some of the professors I have had to endure...just to get a piece of paper that says I am smart

I do not mean to sound full of myself but competeing for my grades has not been fun...which iis why I like honors classes
I do not have to dumb down things...

I have been in classes with some of the brightest young people that it makes me happy to have the future in their hands.
Then I have been in classes with some young people that scare me to death....thinking that our future is in their hands.

Well one thing is good no ones future is in my hands because I am forty six and no has to worry about me

HAHA, oh hell no. You couldn't pay me to go to BYU. I lived in BYU housing, i would never go to the school. Im actualy not in college, nor have i gone yet. (im 23 next month) Im still unsure what dirrection to take my schooling in.

[_harmony]

HAHA, oh hell no. You couldn't pay me to go to BYU. I lived in BYU housing, i would never go to the school. Im actualy not in college, nor have i gone yet. (im 23 next month) Im still unsure what dirrection to take my schooling in.

Wait a minute. You lived in BYU housing, but you weren't a student? How is that possible? Is BYU housing in any way supported by tithing funds? (cleaning and maintenance, building costs, administrative costs?)

[_Jersey Girl]

keene,

Congratulations, for the first time ever you've got me totally invested in a discussion on this board. I would not publicly endorse many parenting authors however, I will give you one name to take with you on your journey toward parenting. In my opinion you can't go wrong with material produced by Dr. T. Berry Brazelton. I believe his attitudes toward parenting are considerate of both parents and their children. He has a heart for children and their parents, a great sense of humor and the professional background to back it up.

If I could hand you one name that would influence your own developing attitudes, I'd hand you Brazelton.

In all cases, when reading material/advice regarding parenting, if it doesn't make sense to you, avoid it. Adults cannot successfully act on information or advice that doesn't seem to "add up" in their minds. You will take from friends, professionals, your own experience and your own parents and morph into the parent your child needs you to be. I have no doubt about that.

Jersey Girl

[_keene]

I would like to continue this discussion on our differing interpretation of the laws, but please, lets continue the discussion on our core assuptions or revelations as well. That is where I hope to find something of real value.

I am fine with that. My reason for asking you about parenting is because I view the family as a microcosm of the family of all mankind, with God as the loving parent. By looking at things on a much smaller scale, and by putting ourselves somewhat in the shoes of God, that may help us to better understand what role God may play in our lives and what kinds of structures (objectives, rules/laws/, etc.) he may put into place for our benefit.

Interesting concept. If I were to think of god as a person, I would probably think the same way -- but I actually believe God to be the sum of all people, matter, energy, time, and universes. I believe we are god, and so is the world he gave us.

Let me ask you about one of the foundational core assumtions. When you and your fiance decide to have a baby, what would be your reasons for having the baby, and what purpose would you have in mind for the baby (what, if anything, do you hope the baby will achieve during this life)? In other words, from God's perspective, why do you believe mankind is born on earth, and to what end are they born?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

The simplest and most obvious reason I want kids is because it would feel good. Naturally speaking, we're wired to make it feel good to continue the species. My hopes with my child, on a fundamental level, is grandchildren. Obviously.

From God's perspective, I believe mankind is born to experience the infinite. I believe that if reality is infinite, then when one imagines What does infinite look like, one is forced to include the current situations and perspectives and part of that infinite reality. Simply put, we're here because we must be here by nature of the universe. To what end are we here? Whatever end you want to believe.

The purpose I have chosen is to free the minds of as many as I can, to unlock the power of consiousness to flow through the infinite freely, choosing their reality. This liberation goes much deeper than just freedom of action -- it's freedom of world, freedom of scenario, freedom above nature. I believe that if the mind is free, we may become Gods in this life, exacting the power of choice to direct ourselves to a world we want to live in -- to heaven. I don't believe in waiting for death, I think it can be reached now.

As this pertains to raising my child -- I hope to create an environment where freedom, curiosity, fun, and kindness are encouraged, so that my child can reach this godhood without unnecessary pain. In other words, I want to take what I was given, improve it as much as possible, and then pass it on.

[_Jersey Girl]

keene: Right now, my current testing method is to find out what works for adults. I have found NLP to be incredibly successful in all of my own personal tests, and in what I have observed from others. How this works in a child's mind is still where I falter. So, when I study, I usually ask "Would this work on me?" If the technique wouldn't work on myself or on anyone I know, then I can reasonably assume it wouldn't work on a child.

Jersey Girl: What works or fails to work on an adult is far different than what is effective with a child of a specific age. The key lies in brain development. Understanding a child's cognitive abilities at various stages of development and knowing how to address/approach a situation based on that is what you need to know.

I agree with Jersey Girl.

Studies have shown (and my personal experience has born this out), that children learn somewhat differently than adults. The way children learn is called "pedagogy" and the way adults learn is called androgogy. For a brief description of each, see: HERE

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Hello wade,

I looked at the information contained in the link you provided. How do you see the characteristics of "pedagogy" as apply to say, teaching a child age 4/5 math concepts?

Jersey Girl

[_Yoda]

HAHA, oh hell no. You couldn't pay me to go to BYU. I lived in BYU housing, i would never go to the school. Im actualy not in college, nor have i gone yet. (im 23 next month) Im still unsure what dirrection to take my schooling in.

Wait a minute. You lived in BYU housing, but you weren't a student? How is that possible? Is BYU housing in any way supported by tithing funds? (cleaning and maintenance, building costs, administrative costs?)

You don't have to be a BYU student to live in off campus BYU approved housing. If an apartment complex is BYU approved, it means that it has been inspected by BYU housing authority, and has been deemed appropriate for student living. They have specific cleanliness and maintenance guidelines (which, in my view, are pretty liberal), and they require a certain amount of desk space for each student, etc.

These apartment complexes are private businesses and are not supported by tithing funds.

[_keene]

keene,

Congratulations, for the first time ever you've got me totally invested in a discussion on this board. I would not publicly endorse many parenting authors however, I will give you one name to take with you on your journey toward parenting. In my opinion you can't go wrong with material produced by Dr. T. Berry Brazelton. I believe his attitudes toward parenting are considerate of both parents and their children. He has a heart for children and their parents, a great sense of humor and the professional background to back it up.

If I could hand you one name that would influence your own developing attitudes, I'd hand you Brazelton.

In all cases, when reading material/advice regarding parenting, if it doesn't make sense to you, avoid it. Adults cannot successfully act on information or advice that doesn't seem to "add up" in their minds. You will take from friends, professionals, your own experience and your own parents and morph into the parent your child needs you to be. I have no doubt about that.

Jersey Girl

I've written that name down. It's on my list 'o' things to read.

I agree with the "add up" statement. It's for this reason that I'm having great difficulty trusting anything I've read so far. The exact sciences are much easier to trust, because I can do the experiments myself, and see the results. Psychology is a very different matter. I've read just about every different style of psychology on the market, in my quest against depression. I have tested most of these psychological techniques in my protege's. The only thing I have found to have any effect is NLP and hypnosis. Even then, the changes are minimal and slow-going unless used with a hallucinogen.

I have learned over the years not to trust psychologists. These are the people who told me time after time after time that I must be horribly depressed. Why, just look at my grades! And how messy my room is! I MUST be depressed! Let's give me drugs!

Ugh! I was given countless SSRI's, Anti-psychotics, and even pain-killers, all of which turned me into something only slightly above zombie, and all of which with powerful addictive effects and horrible withdrawls. I feel much safer in the hands of Extacy, Acid, or Shrooms than I ever did on those drugs.

So, when it comes to psychology, I'm VERY untrusting. Child psychology even more so, because I can't go around testing anything on random children.

[_keene]

HAHA, oh hell no. You couldn't pay me to go to BYU. I lived in BYU housing, i would never go to the school. Im actualy not in college, nor have i gone yet. (im 23 next month) Im still unsure what dirrection to take my schooling in.

Wait a minute. You lived in BYU housing, but you weren't a student? How is that possible? Is BYU housing in any way supported by tithing funds? (cleaning and maintenance, building costs, administrative costs?)

You don't have to be a BYU student to live in off campus BYU approved housing. If an apartment complex is BYU approved, it means that it has been inspected by BYU housing authority, and has been deemed appropriate for student living. They have specific cleanliness and maintenance guidelines (which, in my view, are pretty liberal), and they require a certain amount of desk space for each student, etc.

These apartment complexes are private businesses and are not supported by tithing funds.

Let's not forget that BYU approved means No members of the opposite sex after 10pm, curfew at 11, and a host of other rules and regulations. One of my current roommates got kicked out of BYU housing because we were all over there watching anime. Watchingg anime!! We actually had a curfew monitor knock on the door and kick us all out, because the girls were laughing too loudly.

[_Jersey Girl]

keene,

Congratulations, for the first time ever you've got me totally invested in a discussion on this board. I would not publicly endorse many parenting authors however, I will give you one name to take with you on your journey toward parenting. In my opinion you can't go wrong with material produced by Dr. T. Berry Brazelton. I believe his attitudes toward parenting are considerate of both parents and their children. He has a heart for children and their parents, a great sense of humor and the professional background to back it up.

If I could hand you one name that would influence your own developing attitudes, I'd hand you Brazelton.

In all cases, when reading material/advice regarding parenting, if it doesn't make sense to you, avoid it. Adults cannot successfully act on information or advice that doesn't seem to "add up" in their minds. You will take from friends, professionals, your own experience and your own parents and morph into the parent your child needs you to be. I have no doubt about that.

Jersey Girl

I've written that name down. It's on my list 'o' things to read.

I agree with the "add up" statement. It's for this reason that I'm having great difficulty trusting anything I've read so far. The exact sciences are much easier to trust, because I can do the experiments myself, and see the results. Psychology is a very different matter. I've read just about every different style of psychology on the market, in my quest against depression. I have tested most of these psychological techniques in my protege's. The only thing I have found to have any effect is NLP and hypnosis. Even then, the changes are minimal and slow-going unless used with a hallucinogen.

I have learned over the years not to trust psychologists. These are the people who told me time after time after time that I must be horribly depressed. Why, just look at my grades! And how messy my room is! I MUST be depressed! Let's give me drugs!

Ugh! I was given countless SSRI's, Anti-psychotics, and even pain-killers, all of which turned me into something only slightly above zombie, and all of which with powerful addictive effects and horrible withdrawls. I feel much safer in the hands of Extacy, Acid, or Shrooms than I ever did on those drugs.

So, when it comes to psychology, I'm VERY untrusting. Child psychology even more so, because I can't go around testing anything on random children.

You are right that you can't go around testing anything on random children however, you can observe professionals working with children and draw your conconclusions from there.

Jersey Girl

[_keene]

You are right that you can't go around testing anything on random children however, you can observe professionals working with children and draw your conconclusions from there.

Jersey Girl

I would also like to observe many non-professionals working with children as well. I often times see professionals trying to look so deeply that they miss some of the most obvious things.

Bah, still, more study. More more more. :)

Back to Wade --

Although I do find this coversation on how to raise a child very interesting, I still feel the core of our differing viewpoints is still not addressed. I have seen Gaz all over the board, but not in this thread, so I don't think he's going to take up the banner. Let me recap one more time:

Given that we both followed Moroni's promise:
1.) How can it be that we had two such widely different revelations?
2.) How can we assure which revelation is correct?
3.) How can either of us be assured that the revelation we received is no different from auto-suggestion or other psychological effects?