BYU dumps employee's apologist page ....

[_silentkid]

This is rich, where else other than on a board frequented by Mormon apologists (and perhaps a board frequented by members of the MBLA or the FLDS) can one find otherwise decent, moral, reasonable people constructing tortured defenses of a powerful man (married no less) who uses his position of power to manipulate/coerce minors subject to his authority into sexual relations?

Wade, do you have any sense how your position would play out in the world outside of Mormon apologetics?

I have an idea, and I suspect it differs radically from yours. If so, why would I suppose that you (who ever you are, and whatever your training and background might be) would be in a better position to say than me, one way or the other?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Relativist Fallacy.

[_guy sajer]

This is rich, where else other than on a board frequented by Mormon apologists (and perhaps a board frequented by members of the MBLA or the FLDS) can one find otherwise decent, moral, reasonable people constructing tortured defenses of a powerful man (married no less) who uses his position of power to manipulate/coerce minors subject to his authority into sexual relations?

Wade, do you have any sense how your position would play out in the world outside of Mormon apologetics?

I have an idea, and I suspect it differs radically from yours. If so, why would I suppose that you (who ever you are, and whatever your training and background might be) would be in a better position to say than me, one way or the other?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

You don't mean to suggest, do you, that Joseph Smith's seduction of minor girls would be even remotely considered justifiable were it taken outside of the Mormon apologetics circle, do you?

Holy crap, I find this utterly incredible.

What apologists sometimes lack in critical self-reflection they certainly make up for in the "you've got to be kidding" category.

[_Jason Bourne]

I would condemn both. But for Joseph the issue is really multifaceted. Why did Joseph marry other women in the first place? If God really told him to do so then why was he so ungodly about how he did it? Why did he hide it from his wife? Why did he use his power to persuade those in a less powerful position to marry him? Why promise exaltation? Why marry other men's wives? Why tell a young woman or girl that she was his from the pre-existence? That is immoral in my opinion. Of course the idea of marrying a fourteen year old is repugnant now and then. Especially under the persuasive influence of a man that those he was trying to persuade viewed as THE PROPHET. Such a man has a fiduciary responsibility to take extra care not to abuse the power and influence he has over his followers. In the case of plural marriage it seems that that power was abused and thus the immorality of it seems highlighted. Like I said, if God commanded it it It was not rolled out in a very godly way.

Unlike you, I don't pretend to have the answers to those question, nor do I presume to sit in moral judgement absent sufficient fact and adequate perspective. Apparently, you and others think yourselves in a position to do so--which I find ironic given what I believe to be the immorality of character assasinations underway on this thread.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Hmm, let me see. I give some, what I think are, decent reasons for why I find the issue of plural marriage immoral and bad, and I did it without charecter assisination, and all you do is say, well I don't have all the answers and you, Jason, are bad for judging.

Nope Wade I do not have all the facts. But we do have some. And based on that one needs to evaluate best they can.

Let me ask you, if this were not Joseph Smith we were talking about do you think you might be less apt to bury your head in the sand about it? I did, for a long time. I just could not evaluate THE PROPHET, rationally. Behavior that I might find not nice in another I looked aside when it came to Joseph. I cannot to that amymore. I may be wrong, I may be judging unrighteouusly.

But you did not respond at all other then pretend you are taking some moral high road as well as pretend we do not have fact. I don't get it.