Bokovoy on the warpath again

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_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

I'm an editor by training, and if I were to take my editor's pen to Will's post, it would boil down to this: "I don't like Kevin Graham or the people he hangs out with."

Really, what is the point of such a personal attack, Will?

William Schryver wrote:It has now been a little over a year since I first encountered "Kevin Graham" on the old FAIR board. While conscious of the fact that others have known and interacted with him much longer than I ever did, I am still quite amazed at the the precipitous nature of his downfall in the past year. Of course, he doesn't see it at all. He simply thinks he's become wiser as time as passed. We are the blind; he the sighted.

And now he's found a home here, where he is flattered at every turn by a crowd more than willing to welcome him with open arms. You would think that there would be some spiritual warning light flickering on the dashboard of his soul when he looks around himself and sees nothing but ex-Mormons and anti-Mormons in the ranks of his acolytes – but I guess he has adopted the philosophy that “to rule is worth ambition, though in hell.” From his perch beside the scummy little pond of the mormondiscussions.com message board, one can almost picture him looking back to his former apologist comrades, and in particular to Dan Peterson, and shouting with his fists clenched and raised to the sky:

”Is this the region, this the soil, the clime,
this the seat that we must change for heaven,
this mournful gloom for that celestial light?
Be it so, since he who now is sovereign
can dispose and bid what shall be right:
farthest from Him is best:
Whom reason hath equaled,
force hath made supreme above his equals.
Farewell happy fields where joy forever dwells:
Hail horrors, hail infernal world,
and thou profoundest hell – receive thy new possessor!
One who brings a mind not to be changed by place or time.
The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven.
What matter where, if I be still the same,
And what I should be, all but less than He
Whom thunder hath made greater?
Here at least we shall be free;
The Almighty hath not built here for His envy,
Will not drive us hence: here we may reign secure,
and in my choice to reign is worth ambition, though in hell:
Better to reign in hell, than serve in heaven.”


In the long run, his tragic demise will mean little except to him and his family. He doesn’t have the calm deliberateness of a Brent Metcalfe or a Dan Vogel in order to make of himself an effective critic of the church. His propensity for brittle intellectual rigidity and shockingly condescending rants will eventually marginalize him in the ex-Mormon community as effectively as it did in the community of apologists.

But I’m sure he’ll always have a home here in Shadyville.
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_StructureCop
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Post by _StructureCop »

Fortigurn wrote:So what? Why should I accept yet another assertion without evidence? When are you actually going to deal with the fact that the text of the Old Testament doesn't contain a single 'council of the gods' passage? Enuma Elish couldn't, so he started to talk about Isaiah's lips instead.

Yes, it is absolutely lacking in evidence. Three pages of 8-point font in two columns addressing this topic alone... no evidence at all. Of course, the article is written by E. Theodore Mullen, Jr. who wrote The Divine Council in Canaanite and Early Hebrew Literature published as part of the Harvard Semitic Monographs series. He cites in his article Frank Moore Cross, among others, and articles published in JNES, Ugarit-Forschungen, etc. But, you're right... he came up with it out of thin air.
And in case you were wondering, the ABD is the authoritative reference for biblical studies published to date.


No I wasn't wondering, because I know that the ABD most certainly is not 'the authoritative reference for biblical studies to date'. You'll find almost up to date articles (though nothing published earlier than 2000 can really be considered up to date), and you'll find very out of date articles.

When you read an article from a reference source such as this, you have to check it against current scholarship. That means checking it against a reputable journal such as Bib Sac or JBL.

Are you saying that there has been more recent research published debunking the divine council concept? Where is the ongoing debate occuring? JBL? Bib Sac?
* Journal of Biblical Literature, 1890-2007
* Bibliotheca Sacra, 1934-2005

Good journals.
* Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society, 1966-2005

BYU Studies
* Journal of Christian Apologetics, 1997-1998

Journal of Book of Mormon Studies
* Southern Baptist Journal of Theology, 1997-2005

Element: A Journal of Mormon Philosophy and Theology

You might want to add some of the publications I listed to your list of authoritative references.
_William Schryver
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Post by _William Schryver »

Runtu:

Really, what is the point of such a personal attack, Will?

Was this meant as an exercise in comedy? Or do you practice intense irony as a personal hobby?

I really like both, so I'm willing to take it either way. I just wanted to know if it would be more appropriate to laugh or cry?



At any rate, you may now resume your group pleasuring activity without me. Sorry I interrupted you.
_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

William Schryver wrote:Runtu:

Really, what is the point of such a personal attack, Will?

Was this meant as an exercise in comedy? Or do you practice intense irony as a personal hobby?

I really like both, so I'm willing to take it either way. I just wanted to know if it would be more appropriate to laugh or cry?



At any rate, you may now resume your group pleasuring activity without me. Sorry I interrupted you.


I don't know you from Adam, and yet you attack. Sheesh.
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_Who Knows
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Post by _Who Knows »

William Schryver wrote:At any rate, you may now resume your group pleasuring activity without me. Sorry I interrupted you.


Come on, admit it. You wanted to say 'circle jerk' didn't you?
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
_The Dude
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Post by _The Dude »

LOL That's right, you can say "circle jerk" here, Will.

And StructureCop might be interested to know that the moderators won't edit him if he wants to work "nocturnal emissions" into his posts. (I really laughed when you used that as an example for Lognormal, by the way. Glad to see you here SC.)
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
_Who Knows
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Post by _Who Knows »

Enuma Elish wrote:Thanks Who Knows, for providing an interesting link.


I didn't provide it, Kevin did. I was just re-iterating it for anyone interested in the Book of Abraham debates.
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
_Enuma Elish
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Post by _Enuma Elish »

Who Knows wrote:
Enuma Elish wrote:Thanks Who Knows, for providing an interesting link.


I didn't provide it, Kevin did. I was just re-iterating it for anyone interested in the Book of Abraham debates.


Sorry, my mistake. I'm surprised that Kevin would want to share that link.

The Dude!!!

After all this time, I finally figured out that your avatar derives from the film “The Big Lebowski,” which I hate to admit that even as a major Cohen brother’s fan is a film that I haven’t seen.

Given my respect for you, however, I’m going to have to seriously rectify this issue in the near future!
_StructureCop
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Post by _StructureCop »

The Dude wrote:LOL That's right, you can say "circle jerk" here, Will.

And StructureCop might be interested to know that the moderators won't edit him if he wants to work "nocturnal emissions" into his posts. (I really laughed when you used that as an example for Lognormal, by the way. Glad to see you here SC.)

I'm glad you enjoyed it... I thought it was a reasonable comparison, anyway. :) Good to see you, as well.
_Who Knows
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Post by _Who Knows »

Does anyone know when the church altered Joseph Smith's original D&C 121?

Image

Just curious...
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
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