New Name Noah's Brother

[_Servant]

Do you believe what Christ says in John 6:44, Servant?[/quote]

I thought you mocked this thread, why do you even ask? I believe not only John 6:44, but every word of the Bible. I believe that Mormons have not come to Jesus because the cult teaches that their version of Jesus is the offspring of polygamous exalted human being they call gods. Satan is another son of these polygamous gods, some Mormons say the second, and thus Jesus and Satan are brothers. As long as a Mormon remains in the cult and refuses to renounce diabolical teachings like that, they cannot come to Jesus. They are not preaching Jesus. They have "another Jesus," of which Paul warned.

By the way, I'm also from New Jersey. Lived there for many years. Fortunately, not many Mormon inroads there - the Catholic Church is the most prominent group. Plenty of Anglicans as well.

[_cwald]

I believe not only John 6:44, but every word of the Bible.

Every word huh?

Why do you have such a problem with polygamy then?

[_honorentheos]

I believe not only John 6:44, but every word of the Bible. I believe that Mormons have not come to Jesus because the cult teaches that their version of Jesus is the offspring of polygamous exalted human being they call gods. Satan is another son of these polygamous gods, some Mormons say the second, and thus Jesus and Satan are brothers. As long as a Mormon remains in the cult and refuses to renounce diabolical teachings like that, they cannot come to Jesus. They are not preaching Jesus. They have "another Jesus," of which Paul warned.

By the way, I'm also from New Jersey. Lived there for many years. Fortunately, not many Mormon inroads there - the Catholic Church is the most prominent group. Plenty of Anglicans as well.

It sounds to me like you are following the false prophet Paul who corrupted the words of Jesus and his closest followers. He went so far as to gloat in the scriptures about his supposedly standing up to them and telling them what to think. Funny how we primarily have the texts that support that view that survived through the centuries but when we dig up old sites and find texts that escaped the control of the fires they tend to complicate the perspective we have of what was believed in the time of Jesus rather than clarify it.

You're not preaching Jesus. You're preaching Paul.

[_Jersey Girl]

Do you believe what Christ says in John 6:44, Servant?

I thought you mocked this thread, why do you even ask? I believe not only John 6:44, but every word of the Bible. I believe that Mormons have not come to Jesus because the cult teaches that their version of Jesus is the offspring of polygamous exalted human being they call gods. Satan is another son of these polygamous gods, some Mormons say the second, and thus Jesus and Satan are brothers. As long as a Mormon remains in the cult and refuses to renounce diabolical teachings like that, they cannot come to Jesus. They are not preaching Jesus. They have "another Jesus," of which Paul warned.

By the way, I'm also from New Jersey. Lived there for many years. Fortunately, not many Mormon inroads there - the Catholic Church is the most prominent group. Plenty of Anglicans as well.[/quote]

You are mistaken. I didn't mock this thread. I call into question your approach here.

And what is your position on 1 Peter 3? You agree with that as well?

[_Kishkumen]

I’ll take Mopologists over this blockheaded approach any day of the week. Bibliolatry is the worst.

[_Markk]

I'm going to have to agree that the concept and relationship of the Mormon Jesus to the Mormons is very different than that of the Christian Jesus and Christians in general. There are clear differences in every way. Mormons are ordered to report to their Jesus and submit to the church authority and Christians are just drawn to their Jesus and utilize church according to their own desires.

The Mormon Jesus is not the same as the traditional Jesus had by Christians in general.

I think you know what I mean, Markk.

Certainly. It is both really clear as a Christian from a theological position and yet complicated from a "Mormon" (not LDS) perspective.

From a strict theological perspective, to Christians Jesus is God in the flesh. He put His nature as God aside by reputation, and took on the nature of man. I can write pages on this, which includes His Triune nature, but in a nutshell He is God.

As a Latter-Day Saint, he was a intelligent piece of matter, procreated to a spirit person, who became God of the Old Testament and the Book of Mormon (complicated in it's self), and then not being fully God, came to earth so he could be a savior and then became exalted to I suppose becoming a "better" God. I could write pages on this also, using only LDS sources.

As a "Mormon" and my guess MG's perspective, Jesus is a picture on a wall in the foyer, in primary manuals, and on flannel boards, which has little children on his lap, with lambs in the back ground. This Jesus is the Jesus that we would pray to with or young children when we put them to bed. The LDS Jesus is the Jesus we would think about in PH classes with or heads bent over buried deep in our hands.


Years ago when I discussed my new Christian faith with my parents, I learned the difference. My mothers Jesus was the "Mormon" Jesus, and my fathers Jesus was the LDS Jesus. Many times my mother would give strange looks to my father when we discussed the LDS theological Christ, she had no room in her testimony for that Jesus. Her's was a Jesus that made her family a "forever family." A Jesus of love and unconditional forgiveness. My fathers Jesus was a Jesus that provided a means to an end, that he to could be like him and HF, and become a God and become like them.

The Mormon Jesus taught us to love and offered peace, the LDS Jesus taught us guilt and forced us to be something we could never be. I can go on and on, but right or wrong at this point in my journey it is how I see it.

I hope this makes sense to you Paul.

[Guest]

Too bad you know all these Christians with poor character. Do you know any atheists with poor character? Moral Reformation is a secular cult for all practical purposes, and every cult teaches it in one form or another. Since you reject the divine nature of Christ, God the Word, I really don't know why you are on this site, other than the fact that many who leave the Mormon cult seem to come to this particular forum to dis the LDS - but of course, if you are a Christian here you are going to get battered. Must be my poor character. Strangely, there are no forums for ex-Anglicans. They mostly stay put.

In any case, regarding the Mormon view of the Atonement. it has a lot in common with that of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Mormons and Witnesses both teach that Jesus' "atonement" gave men the opportunity to work out their own salvation. I recently (just the other day in fact) had a Mormon missionary tell me that Jesus atoned for sins before he died. I'm assuming this was supposed to be in Gethsemane. I asked him how Jesus could have made the atonement before he died - and I reminded him that the Passover Lamb had to be slaughtered as a sacrifice for the sins of Jews to be forgiven. Of course, the Mormons, who seemingly despise the cross, confine their version of the atonement to the Garden of Gethsemane, with the cross simply a final destination of some kind. With Paul, Christians believe that the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing - unfortunately that includes Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, who both add their works to the Blood of Christ. In each case, the "atonement" the two cults pitch is nothing more than an opportunity to save one's self. The Christian view is this: we are helpless sinners, lost and deserving of eternal death. Jesus died on the cross, paying the penalty for our sins - and His righteousness is imputed to us. Thus there is at the foot of Calvary the Great Exchange: Jesus becomes sin for me, that I might become the righteousness of God in Christ. 2 Cor. 5:21:

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

[_Servant]

I believe not only John 6:44, but every word of the Bible.

Every word huh?

Why do you have such a problem with polygamy then?

I'm assuming you don't, and would love to have it reinstated, right? Polygamy was a cultural practice and not a commandment of God. Jesus gave us the Biblical view when he said THE TWO SHALL BE ONE. Not the Three shall be one, or the four, or the five. Paul said that each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. However, Joe Smith, was a horrific womanizer and pedophile. He used religion to acquire wealth, power and especially women (and girls). There are plenty of Mormon males today who look forward to having many nymph-like creatures in their Celestial Kingdom - just as do Muslims.

[_honorentheos]

Too bad you know all these Christians with poor character. Do you know any atheists with poor character? Moral Reformation is a secular cult for all practical purposes, and every cult teaches it in one form or another. Since you reject the divine nature of Christ, God the Word, I really don't know why you are on this site, other than the fact that many who leave the Mormon cult seem to come to this particular forum to dis the LDS - but of course, if you are a Christian here you are going to get battered. Must be my poor character. Strangely, there are no forums for ex-Anglicans. They mostly stay put.

In any case, regarding the Mormon view of the Atonement. it has a lot in common with that of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Mormons and Witnesses both teach that Jesus' "atonement" gave men the opportunity to work out their own salvation. I recently (just the other day in fact) had a Mormon missionary tell me that Jesus atoned for sins before he died. I'm assuming this was supposed to be on Gethsemane. I asked him how Jesus could have made the atonement before he died - and I reminded him that the Passover Lamb had to be slaughtered as a sacrifice for the sins of Jews to be forgiven. Of course, the Mormons, who seemingly despise the cross, confine their version of the atonement to the Garden of Gethsemane, with the cross simply a final destination of some kind. With Paul, Christians believe that the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing - unfortunately that includes Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, who both add their works to the Blood of Christ. In each case, the "atonement" the two cults pitch is nothing more than an opportunity to save one's self. The Christian view is this: we are helpless sinners, lost and deserving of eternal death. Jesus died on the cross, paying the penalty for our sins - and His righteousness is imputed to us. Thus there is at the foot of Calvary the Great Exchange: Jesus becomes sin for me, that I might become the righteousness of God in Christ. 2 Cor. 5:21:

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

I assume this was a response to my post to Markk and Shulem. Why not respond to the posts I made directed at you specifically about the evidence for/against there having been a resurrection? Or that the rise of the Romanized form of Christianity is a product of culture rather than a statement about it's divine authority?

[_Servant]

Do you believe what Christ says in John 6:44, Servant?

I thought you mocked this thread, why do you even ask? I believe not only John 6:44, but every word of the Bible. I believe that Mormons have not come to Jesus because the cult teaches that their version of Jesus is the offspring of polygamous exalted human being they call gods. Satan is another son of these polygamous gods, some Mormons say the second, and thus Jesus and Satan are brothers. As long as a Mormon remains in the cult and refuses to renounce diabolical teachings like that, they cannot come to Jesus. They are not preaching Jesus. They have "another Jesus," of which Paul warned.

By the way, I'm also from New Jersey. Lived there for many years. Fortunately, not many Mormon inroads there - the Catholic Church is the most prominent group. Plenty of Anglicans as well.

You are mistaken. I didn't mock this thread. I call into question your approach here.

And what is your position on 1 Peter 3? You agree with that as well?[/quote]

I believe it. Jesus preached to the spirits in prison. These may have been the fallen angels, or human spirits. Not sure. But in any case, He went and preached to them. Some say that prior to the resurrection of Christ the "saved" dead were kept in the Second compartment of Hades, sometimes referred to as Paradise., see Luke 16. When Christ ascended to Heaven, He took those Old Testament saints to heaven with Him. I pretty much go along with that.

Now, my purpose here has come to an end, and my message has gone where I wanted it to go. It's been interesting......but not so nice.