When treating people with respect is just too difficult for some.

[toon]

I don't think the name was simply Jesus, but instead [blank] Jesus.

I missed that. Was the blank the F- word or its equivalent? If so, I think avoiding use of the name is fine.

I didn't assume profanity, but rather something that could be considered sacrilegious in combination but innocent by itself. Something like Rad Dude Jesus, and she chose to call him Rad Dude instead.

[Res Ipsa]

Why did pronouns develop on a gender basis in the first place? Was it so important to identify one's gender every time a pronoun is used by a speaker? Seriously?!

Just this past Sunday, I was speaking the an older individual, who questioned why "Ms." is used instead of "Miss" and "Mrs." I asked why the marital status needs to be identified? After all, at once time Master referred to an unmarried male and Mister to a married one, but society has long ago by and large dropped use of "Master" and simply refers to married and unmarried males alike, now simply "Mister." Was there pushback to that, like I am still hearing 40+ years after "Ms." first started being used? For decades after the title for men stopped distinguishing between married and unmarried males, the titles distinguishing married ("Mrs.") females from unmarried ones ("Miss") persisted.

The pronoun situation is similar. Why does it yet persist? I would ask the aunt these questions, why it is so important to her when speaking and uses pronouns does she feel it necessary to identify the gender?

It varies among languages. In English, first and second person pronouns are genderless; only third-person pronouns are gendered. If I recall my smattering of Navajo correctly, not only was the third person pronoun genderless, it didn’t distinguish between animate and inanimate. But, At the same time, the word for “it” was different depending on the shape and number of the objects.

So many different ways of talking about the world.

[Moksha]

Are trans folks somehow less deserving of respect than black folks?

The Brethren no longer hold hatred for black folks.

[Jersey Girl]

I went back to the thread I quoted this from, here's some additional information:

My 19 year old has been out as a transgender man for 2 years. Everyone on my husband’s side of the family has virtually ignored him since, while he has continued to show up at family gatherings so he can continue to have relationships with his cousins and also to assert his right to exist in the family.

This SIL [ quoted in the OP] was the one family member who was consistently respectful and used his correct name and pronouns. Now this text came out of the blue this week. I don’t know how to respond as the parent of a barely adult child. What would you do?

That just changed my whole approach. I shall regroup and try to revise my position now.

[Res Ipsa]

I went back to the thread I quoted this from, here's some additional information:

My 19 year old has been out as a transgender man for 2 years. Everyone on my husband’s side of the family has virtually ignored him since, while he has continued to show up at family gatherings so he can continue to have relationships with his cousins and also to assert his right to exist in the family.

This SIL [ quoted in the OP] was the one family member who was consistently respectful and used his correct name and pronouns. Now this text came out of the blue this week. I don’t know how to respond as the parent of a barely adult child. What would you do?

That additional information changes my thinking. First, describing the son as a “barely adult child” is infantalizing. There’s a ton of maturation that goes on between child and adult. The 19 year old deserves the level of respect given to adults, with both love and support as needed.

Mom should not respond to the aunt. The goal should be to raise a strong, confident son who is capable of navigating a world that is going to be harsh on him in ways the mother is unlikely to experience. I would ask my daughter how this makes her feel and what she wants to do. The son has already adopted a way of dealing with the shunning from the Dad’s side of the family, and should be trusted to navigate this as well. Again, with support as requested/needed.

If my daughter didn’t know how to respond and asked me what I thought she would do, I would go over with her the ways she could respond. I might give her one option that looks something like this:

Dear Aunt,

Thank you so much for being willing to accept who I am and respecting my choice of name and pronoun. I had no idea that using my chosen name and pronouns was causing you harm. By being true to myself, I do not intend to harm anyone else. But pretending to be someone that I am not caused me more pain than I could bear.

I don’t think I can describe how painful it is to me when someone denies who I am by calling me a name that I do not wish to be known by and by using pronouns that describe what I pretended to be instead of who I am. Just reading your note was devastating to me and I’ve cried for hours from the hurt. What I read your note is that you will tell me who I am rather than accept who I am.

If calling me Don and referring to me as “he” causes you pain, please do not inflict your pain on me by calling me a name that is hurtful to me or use words to describe me that are hurtful to me. We can speak with each other just fine without using any name at all, and second person pronouns like you and your have no gender.

When people misgender me, my practice is to politely remind them of my name and pronouns. If you forget, that’s what I’ll do.

Love,

The idea is to acknowledge the pain that the aunt expresses while making clear that hurting “me” is not an acceptable was to escape her pain. It is also to set clear boundaries as well as the consequence if they are crossed. I would hope that it would empower my daughter to set the terms of engagement and puts the responsibility for the aunt’s choice of language squarely on the aunt, where it belongs.

But I would stress that this is just one option of many, and it my daughter’s choice to make.

[msnobody]

What do you call the thousands of Latino men named Jesus? Or what about “Body of Christ, Texas.”

Wasn’t his name in his native language a common one?

Do you really think Jesus would somehow be offended at you for using a patient’s legal name?

I don't think the name was simply Jesus, but instead [blank] Jesus.

That is correct.

[Gadianton]

I don’t think cutting the aunt out is the only option

I agree. I think it's the best play if the kid is well enough to step up and be the bigger person.

Her story is unbelievable for so many reasons. In addition to what I've already said, it's generally going to be isolationists who feel the stress of dealing with people different than they are in some tiny capacity if they've never had to. The greatest possibility to inch the aunt to rationality -- note I'm saying possibility -- is to be around her even if it's on her terms. It makes it easier to just go away and then she doesn't have to deal with it.

[Moksha]

The greatest possibility to inch the aunt to rationality -- note I'm saying possibility -- is to be around her even if it's on her terms. It makes it easier to just go away and then she doesn't have to deal with it.

It is not like he could take the Mormon out of the Mormon. She is his aunt and will remain so.

[Res Ipsa]

I don’t think cutting the aunt out is the only option

I agree. I think it's the best play if the kid is well enough to step up and be the bigger person.

Her story is unbelievable for so many reasons. In addition to what I've already said, it's generally going to be isolationists who feel the stress of dealing with people different than they are in some tiny capacity if they've never had to. The greatest possibility to inch the aunt to rationality -- note I'm saying possibility -- is to be around her even if it's on her terms. It makes it easier to just go away and then she doesn't have to deal with it.

I think it’s believable in the context that she was the only member of the father’s family that would even acknowledge the presence of, let alone use the chosen name and pronouns of the nephew. Given those circumstances, I find it completely believable that the aunt was under a high level of stress caused by pressure placed on her by other LDS family members. I also think that relieving that stress in the least stressful manner is rational. But it isn’t kind or respectful.

[I Have Questions]

…she was the only member of the father’s family that would even acknowledge the presence of, let alone use the chosen name and pronouns of the nephew. Given those circumstances, I find it completely believable that the aunt was under a high level of stress caused by pressure placed on her by other LDS family members.

Some Mormon families really don’t practice what they preach. But hey, Jeff Holland assures us that Mormons don’t shun…

Mormon Church elder Jeffrey Holland denies shunning occurs.
"We don't use that word and we don't know that practice.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17487873

Good to know Jeff…

It might be worth sending the Aunt this quote from Dallin Oaks:
“Anyone who does not treat individuals who face gender identity challenges with love and dignity is not aligned with the teachings of the first and second great commandments.”
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... ng=eng#p10

Not using the preferred non binary pronouns is not treating the person with love and dignity.